I’ve never completely understood this, but, if Westeros is primarily an agrarian economy with all the small folk farming to generate taxes, how does all that food and minor crafts eventually equate to gold for the lords and lords paramounts? Doesn’t that imply a market economy where they sell their food stuffs for gold? And who is buying all this food? There must be a big export industry to Essos to generate all that gold, for cheap perishable commodities and unfinished goods.

Well, there’s a couple different ways that it would work:

  • The tax and coinage system.  This is how the Modern Monetary Theorists explain the evolution of currency: kings mint coins and exchange them for food and other goods at a certain rate when they need to feed their armies and their courts, etc. and they don’t have enough grown on their own lands. Likewise, kings can insist that you need to pay your taxes in coin. These two things establish a demand for currency, and lead people to be willing to exchange goods for money in their private dealings as well as their dealings with the king.
  • The nobility: on a lesser level, the same thing happens with the nobility. They get taxes in kind for the most part, but there’s a limit to how much food they need to keep their families, servants, and soldiers fed, and nobility tend to buy a lot of stuff you need to buy with coins: nicer-than-homespun clothing, metal-ware, pottery, glass-ware, spices and imported food and drink, lots of services from specialized craftsmen, etc. And so a lot of noblemen act as de-facto merchants, collecting raw materials and selling them in bulk for coin.  
  • Urban demand: even in a rural society, you’ve still got 10% or so of the economy that produces manufactured goods and is much more in the market economy than self-sufficient farmers. So if you’re a farmer and you want to buy things you can’t make yourself, you need to get your hands on some coin – and one of the things a market society produces is merchants who exchange goods for coin and try to arbitrage prices. 
  • Foreign demand: there’s less commerce in agrarian societies than industrial societies generally, but given that climate and culture lead to various specialization, you get a good deal of regional and international trade no matter what. And while you can trade wool for wine, money makes trade so much easier.

So, practically speaking, the Lannisters need a charter of some sort to run a cross-kingdom bank, might this explain why they (or anyone else) haven’t done it already? The Iron Bank disadvantages all houses equally; a Golden Bank elevates the Lannisters above all others. That’s usually a good way to make enemies, right?

Yes and no. That explains why they haven’t done it in the last 300 years. Not why they haven’t in the previous 7,300 years that they were Kings of the Rock. “Honor loan agreements or we invade you” works fairly well, as the Iron Bank has found out. 

I have very little knowledge on even the most basics of economics, and I can’t really wrap my head around a lot of your newer writings when it comes to the Lannister Banks and such. I know it’s not at all ASOIAF related, but could you recommend books about economics, both historical and modern, for dummies like me?

I’m maybe the worst person to ask about this, because I picked up my knowledge about economics very randomly and completely outside of the context of a traditional economics course (my day job is the history of public policy). So mostly I know a lot about the history of economic theory as it applies to public policy. 

Some recommendations:

Graeber’s Debt: the First 5,000 Years is good on ancient stuff, bad on modern.

Polayni’s Great Transformation should be required for citizenship. 

Eichengreen’s great on monetary policy. So’s Greider on 70s and after. 

Skidelsky is great on Keynes if you don’t want to read the General Theory yourself. 

Yuval Yonay, Daniel Rogers, Nancy Cohen, Rosenof, and Richard Parker’s biography of Galbraith are excellent in helping to explain how economics got from Adam Smith to the 20th century.  

If the Lannisters want to found their own bank (the Golden Bank), do they need permission from a king in the same way a town needs a charter? Obviously, the Lannisters are already loaning out gold, but to specifically be a bank, do they need a banking charter?

Certainly, within the boundaries of the Westerlands, I think the Lannisters can issue their own charter and enforce it. Essentially the way Tywin did, right before the Rains kicked off, but with more legality attached. 

Enforcing it outside of the Westerlands – might be a trickier problem. The Lord Paramount of the Reach might or might not recognize a loan agreement with, say, House Rowan, but they’re going to look askance at you sending out soldiers to enforce repayment, and be dead against the Lannisters trying to take possession of land in the Reach as compensation. Likewise, who decides how courts rule on contract law in a case involving a merchant from White Harbor – the courts in Lannisport or the courts in Winterfell? 

So you probably would need cross-Kingdom agreements or a royal charter to iron out the disputes that touch on issues of sovereignty.

Do you think the fusion of elements from different eras of history detracts from the cohesion of world of ASOIAF? For example, you’ve mentioned how the Iron Bank is similar to an organization that started in 1602, but Westeros seems largely stuck in the 1400s, while their legal system is much older still. As a historian, does this detract from the feeling of the world being real, or do you think it’s okay?

Actually, I think that’s kind of one of the more realistic elements. Development doesn’t take place at the same time everywhere, so some places are behind the times and others on the cutting edge. The battle of Agincourt, very much a part of the Middle Ages, took place a hundred years after the start of the Renaissance. The refeudalization of Poland was contemporaneous with the English Civil War. Etc etc. 

Tower of the Hand: The Blacks and Reds, Part II

joannalannister:

SNIP

Maybe this is a stupid question of mine, but I don’t quite understand how Daemon could set up his government in the Reach if the Tyrells opposed him? (At least I think that a lack of Tyrell support is what racefortheironthrone was getting at – I thought that key sentence was a little vaguely worded.) And what was the most likely castle in the Reach for Daemon to choose as his capital?

Aha. The explanation for this part is in my first essay on the Blackfyres. I think the Tyrells were secretly on the Blackfyres’ side (or at least leaning that way) and deliberately didn’t do anything about the rebel government – hence why Leo Longthorn doesn’t show up at the Battle of the Mander or at Redgrass Field. But, I think Leo had more in common with Margaery than Loras – he promised his army to Daemon, but then dragged his heels until he saw who was on the winning side, then promptly flipped and attacked his own bannermen as they came running back to the Reach after Redgrass to prove his loyalties. 

I love, love, love all of these betrayals in the westerlands, and it just makes so much sense that House Crakehall is the first line of defense from the south. I’ve speculated before that the Crakehalls are pretty powerful and I think this give some good reasons why. The idea of the Blackfyre army just marching uncontested up the Ocean Road all the way to the gates of Lannisport is one of my new favorite things about the Blackfyre Rebellion. (I guess the Reynes were initially providing gold to Daemon in secret – I wonder if there was fear of Reyne treachery during the War of the Ninepenny Kings? Did young Ser Tywin tap Kevan on the shoulder to spy on Lord Reyne?)

As I’ll explain more in Part III, I think the Lannisters bought off the Reynes with engagements – hence the Reynes appearing on the loyalist side during the Peake Uprising around the time that Ellyn Reyne is engaged to Tywald Lannister.

I’m confused about this^^. So, the way most Westerosi military commanders, well, command is from the center? Why is the left traditionally not a good place, and why did Daemon decide the left was a good place? I don’t know anything about battlefields.

Ok, so in medieval warfare, armies tended to be divided into three battles or wards or guards – the vanguard, the main/middle guard, and the rear guard. The vanguard marched at the front of the column, hence it would be the first to come into contact with the enemy – because of this, the vanguard is the place where you put your best troops and thus is the place of honor (hence the lords squabbling over who will lead Renly’s van).  

When armies fell out into line, they almost always fought with the rear on the left, the main in the middle, and the vanguard on the right. It’s not exactly clear why – some people think it has to do with the whole left = sinister thing (hence why the right hand side is the seat of honor at a feast), others that it has to do with sword hands vs. shield hands, etc. But what it means is that armies faced each other like this:

VANGUARD MIDDLE REAR (imagine this side is facing down)

REAR MIDDLE VANGUARD (imagine this side is facing up)

I.E, both sides are putting their strongest element against their enemy’s weakest, hoping to break through first before the other side can.

What Daemon did was to reverse the order and put his strongest division up against the enemy’s strongest division, which is incredibly risky but also if he wins means his vanguard will absolutely tear through the enemy’s weaker middle and rear, while his own right flank is more protected. There’s historical precedent for this – it’s exactly what Edward IV did at the Battle of Tewksbury during the Wars of the Roses.