I think it’s the former – better equipment, more experience in fighting knights, etc.
Author: stevenattewell
When is kinslaying ok? It is very weird that Maegor or Visenya get condemned when Aenys brings their empire to the brink but it is a ok for Daemon Blackfyre to kill two thirds of his family tree because Daeron maybe favors his in-laws.
I’d say the difference is that Maegor definitely killed his blood relatives in a physical and direct fashion, whereas Daemon didn’t.
The kinslaying taboo seems like the sort of thing that will often be honored in the breach.
Morality aside, a strong taboo against kinslaying is an important method of social stabilization in a primogeniture inheritance system where there’s always going to be a temptation for younger siblings to murder their way up the family tree. The existing society has an interest in that not happening a lot.
But there are going to be wide gray areas. For example, it appears to apply only to close kin. Rhaegar and Robert Baratheon were actually quite closely related; they had a common great-grandfather, making them second cousins. That’s really close! But Robert killing the shit out of Rhaegar isn’t accounted kinslaying. This makes sense, because the way nobles intermarry a strong taboo against kinslaying even your extended family tree would quickly be entirely ignored because it would utterly remove violence as a means of conflict resolution, and a culture with a strong warrior caste doesn’t want that.
It also seems to only apply weakly if someone wrongs YOU first. If your kin are trying to usurp you, you may get side-eyed by the pious if you totally murder the balls out of them but likely not more than that. If you have something perceived as a “good reason” like your kin being crazed criminals or having cheated you of your inheritance or something, it is probably much more okay than it otherwise would be. The Brackens and Blackwoods are both close kin to each other, with many short-lived peaces between them sealed with marriage pacts, but you can bet your bottom dollar you had people in that feud killing their first cousins, their uncles, maybe even their-half siblings. But nobody looks upon them as unholy houses of dishonorable kinslayers.
There’s a lot of room for flexibility there.
What there isn’t a lot of room for is “I murdered my brothers because I wanted to inherit.” THAT is probably the kind of kinslaying that the taboo is meant to most strongly guard against.
Oh, it definitely doesn’t apply to extended kin – Rickard Karstark was full of it.
I also don’t think it counts unless you are physically involved in killing them; Bloodraven is called a kinslayer but Baelor Breakspear isn’t, despite both of them fighting against Daemon Blackfyre, because Bloodraven shot Daemon and his sons himself, whereas Baelor just fought the Blackfyre’s army.
Aegon II I think falls under the rubric because a dragon is essentially a personal weapon.
Maester Steven, is the Latifundia system used along the lower Rhoyne colonies capable of producing more food per capita than the agricultural model used in Westeros? Secondly, was it high levels of urbanization along the Rhoyne that necessitated the development of this system or the system that allowed the development of large urban centers?
More vs. less isn’t quite the right way to think about it.
Latifundia, like later plantations, basically involved large gangs of slaves working to produce monocrops for export, so they were more specialized and had a lot of manpower tasked to that one specialty.
Whereas while the Westerosi system is probably less efficient at producing one crop at volume, it’s more diversified and self-sustaining.
Isn’t it weird that Barbrey is the apparently uncontested ruler of House Dustin? They’re one of the oldest and most noble houses in the North. Are we to believe that Willam had no brothers, uncles or male cousins that could be found in the North. It just struck me as odd that a house that ancient would get handed off to a dowager widow as though it weren’t a big deal.
Discussed here.
What kind of role do you think the Freys played during First Blackfyre? Did they totally support the Blacks? Or did they hedge their bets & provide half-assed support? Or sat out all together? They are not listed anywhere as one of the top Black Houses, nor did Ser Eustace list them among the half-supporters. Yet Lord Peake seemed very sure of their support during Second Blackfyre.
The Freys’ presence at the Tourney of Whitewalls suggests they had either “fought for the Black Dragon once,” or had “reason to resent Bloodraven’s rule, or nurse grievances and ambitions of their own.” Given their prominence in the whole affair, I lean to the former rather than the latter.
As you say, Ser Eustace doesn’t name them among the Houses that tried “to keep one foot in each camp” or as having outright betrayed Daemon like the Lothstons. So I would guess they fought straight-up and then bent the knee. As for why they’re not numbered as one of the top, they’re a lesser House and nouveau riche to boot.
What is the significance of Pennytree being a royal fief in the Riverlands? Also, why didn’t the Targaryens ever have any lands outside the Crownlands?
I think we’ll have to wait for GRRM’s “Village Hero” story to find out, but odds are that Egg had Pennytree made a royal fief to honor his mentor’s former master.
And Summerhall is in the Stormlands.
When is kinslaying ok? It is very weird that Maegor or Visenya get condemned when Aenys brings their empire to the brink but it is a ok for Daemon Blackfyre to kill two thirds of his family tree because Daeron maybe favors his in-laws.
I’d say the difference is that Maegor definitely killed his blood relatives in a physical and direct fashion, whereas Daemon didn’t.
You ever watch Babylon 5? Thoughts?
Watched the first episode, couldn’t get into it.
You hypothesized on HistoryofWesteros’s BFR podcast the idea for the formation of a Blackfyre Kingdom in the Disputed Lands. (1) What is the likely political system that such a kingdom would adopt, given the difference in ideologies between the aristocratic Westerosi conquerors and the entrenched mercantile hierarchy of the Three Daughters? What factors would determine the eventual model that the BF monarchy would settle on? Thank You!
(2) Would Controlling only the Disputed lands give the Blackfyre monarchy enough soft power to control the Three Daughters or would they have to exert hard power over these cities to ensure stability in the region? Do you know of a real life parallel that one could study to better understand how such a situation would unfold? Thank You!
1. If the Blackfyres had created a state in the Disputed Lands, it would definitely be a monarchy, possibly with an advisory council of magisters to keep the locals happy, but definitely a monarchy to emphasize that the Blackfyres are the True Kings of Westeros.
2. No, they’d need Tyrosh, Myr, and Lys as part of their realm.