Yes.
Probably not. Venom as a character was designed around Spiderman, and as someone who actually read Venom solo comics in the 90s when I was too young and stupid to know better, I really don’t think he works without him.
Just a backup in advance of the detumblring
Yes.
Probably not. Venom as a character was designed around Spiderman, and as someone who actually read Venom solo comics in the 90s when I was too young and stupid to know better, I really don’t think he works without him.
He’s way over-exposed, but the initial idea was fascinating. What Spiderman 3 got wrong is that the symbiote isn’t supposed to be Jekyll and Hyde – the symbiote doesn’t change who you are – but rather that it’s an obsessive lover. Initially, the costume is super-handy: unlimited web-fluid, don’t have to rely on flexing the wrist, don’t have to worry about laundering your costume, don’t have to worry about changing out of civilian garb. (Note, it’s not about becoming more powerful, it’s just more useful…)

But then the suit starts acting on its own to remain close to Peter – it doesn’t want to be taken off, it starts wearing him at night, it gets aggressive towards potential rivals for his affections, etc. And then when Peter realizes it’s alive and tries to get rid of it, it lashes out with the resentful fury of a lover scorned, trying to wrap him up, subsume him, merge the two FOREVER. (Note the subtext of the heteronormative fear of male penetration…) And of course, eventually it hooks up with someone on the rebound who shares its love/hate for Peter and becomes this haunting evil presence in Peter’s life, his dark inamorata.
If it remained at this level, it would be an all-time great villain. But then they just over-used Venom, brought in Carnage and succeeding photocopies, tried to make Venom a protagonist, and on and on.
Yes, with caveats.
What makes movies feel “crowded” or “overstuffed” with villains is that filmmakers have felt the need to treat all of the villains equally when it comes to screentime (especially since they’re often introducing them in the same movie that they’re using them) – if instead of that, you’re using already extant villains and make them part of the whole story instead of their own stories, it’ll go much smoother. To give an example, Spiderman: Homecoming featured…
(cut for spoilers)
the Vulture, the Tinkerer, two Shockers, the Prowler, and Scorpion. But it didn’t feel crowded or overstuffed because the film didn’t feel the need to make all of their villains equal in screentime, or give them all backstories and arcs. Rather, Vulture was the main villain and everyone else was part of his story as either a henchman or a customer. Very quick little bits explained that the first Shocker was a flaky hothead and the second was more cautious and loyal, that the Tinkerer was a quippy nerd, that the Scorpion was a psycho that no one liked, and that the Prowler was laid back and only tangentially in the game.
Moreover, in future movies, we’re not going to need a full backstory to explain why the second Shocker or the Scorpion want revenge against Peter Parker or who the guy making the bad guy’s tech is. The previous movie does the setup for us in the same way that Cap: Civil War did the setup for Parker so that Homecoming didn’t have to explain how he became Spiderman besides a quick joke about the spider being dead.
So that’s how I’d do a Sinister SIx or an Acts of Vengeance – rather than giving everyone equal weight and doing backstories and arcs for each villain, you put the focus on the ensemble, and trust in the setup you’ve done in previous movies to do a lot of the work for you so that you can maintain pacing.
I don’t like Spiderman 3; I like Spiderman 1 + 2.
As for the black suit, I think the “cool” or “not” thing misses the point – in the comic, the suit doesn’t change Spiderman’s mind beyond making him tired and a bit snappish b/c his body is fighting crime while he’s asleep. The suit is more useful (it can mimic street clothes, it produces its own webbing, and it responds to his thoughts) and it has new vulnerabilities (fire and sound) but only Black Cat thinks it’s cool (Mary Jane hates it, for example). It’s not a Jekyll and Hyde story.
Rather, the plot dynamic is about the suit as an obsessive lover – that it cares for him and wants to help him so much that it begins to act on its own and eventually tries to permanently bond with him against his will, and then reacts to Peter’s rejection by developing an obsessive love-hate relationship as Venom.
But the problem with Spiderman 3 is that it tries to do too many stories: it’s about Venom and Eddie Brock, it’s about Sandman and retconning him into the Uncle Ben story, it’s about Harry as the Green Goblin, it’s about Mary Jane vs. Gwen Stacy, and on and on. One of the things that Homecoming showed is that you can have multiple villains – it’s got the Vulture, the Tinkerer, the Shocker, the Scorpion, and the Prowler – but you need to make them part of one story, in this case the Vulture’s story.

I’ll put my short, non-spoiler version above the cut for people who haven’t seen it yet: it’s good. It’s really good, head and shoulders above the Amazing duology and it holds its own against the Raimi films more than you would think.
Specifically, it has two major strengths: first, as many people have noted, Tom Holland’s Spiderman feels like a real teenager way more than either Andrew Garfield or Tobey Macguire did – in part because the movie makes the most of out its science high school setting by giving Holland a secondary cast of other teens to bounce off of, and by making the conflict between his superhero life and his regular life being about high school things generally (making Lego Death Stars, Academic Decathalon meets, detention) instead of just about his romantic relationships.
Second, as other people have noted, Spiderman: Homecoming feels way more New York (more of a neighborhood Spiderman, you could say) than previous Spiderman movies. The Amazing movies’ idea of New York was some abstracted Times Square theme park, and with the best will in the world, even the Raimi films portrayed an extremely white New York that didn’t go beyond Midtown canyons and various landmarks. But Homecoming felt like Queens, from the multicultural student body at Midtown Science to Spiderman and the Prowler (you were great, Donald Glover!) arguing over which bodegas have the best sandwiches, to the jokes about how the outer boroughs aren’t well-stocked with tall buildings to web-swing off of, to Spiderman’s interactions with neighborhood locals who get pissed when would-be superheroes web their hands to their cars or repay subway directions with churros.
Protagonist
So let’s start with Tom Holland. For all that people complain about the Marvel “machine,” one of the things the machine does very well is make sure that their writers and directors nail the main characters, even if that’s at the expense of the plot, because you have to sell the audience on the character to get the audience to care, and because superhero plots are generally pretty secondary anyway. And Homecoming does a really good job of building on the excellent work that Civil War did. To quote myself:
“I buy Tom Holland more than I ever bought Andrew Garfield or Tobey Maguire – Tobey was always a bit too soft and saccharine for me to buy that he was the irreverent snarker behind the mask, whereas Andrew’s performance was way too much of an over-reaction to the backlash against Spiderman III, and came off as way too cool.
That’s the thing about Spiderman/Peter Parker that makes him tricky: he’s a nerd and a bit nebbishy (although he kind of ages out of that a little – there had to be something there that Mary Jane Watson liked), but once he puts the mask on, he gains the confidence to express himself, even if that is as a smart-alecky motor-mouth. There’s a side of Peter Parker that has an ego, a yearning to show the world that he’s not Puny Parker any more – after all, the first thing he did when he got super-powers was to get in front of TV cameras – that makes him prank J. Jonah Jameson to get back at him, or not just fight the Kingpin but relentlessly crack fat jokes at him.
As I’ve said above, it’s really easy to grab one part of that personality and not the other. And one of the things I really like about Tom Holland’s Spiderman is that I feel like you have both…”
So how did Homecoming build on this? First, the nerd side of Peter Parker was nicely contextualized by his high school (which because it’s an elite magnet school is full of nerds) – he’s extremely high-scoring (he’s bullied by Flash because Peter’s constantly showing him up in class, and he’s the lynchpin of the Decathalon team until MJ steps up in his absence) but you get the sense that he feels like he’s maybe too smart for school so he sometimes gets himself in detention and probably hurts his GPA a bit by not doing homework in favor of his own projects; he’s a joiner (Decathalon, band, etc.) because he’s not very socially confident (hence his small friend circle of Ned and MJ, hence his mini-freakouts about Liz’s party and the eponymous dance) BUT he’s also someone who over-extends himself and then quits (holy crap did that one hit close to home), so he’s seen as a bit of a flake.
Second, that nerd side nicely parallels his super-hero side, with the wonderful euphemism of the “Stark internship” (god, no wonder Flash is jealous). Peter is desperate for recognition, to get called up to the big leagues, to the point where he’s constantly biting off more than he can chew (literally taking the training wheels off too early) to prove himself to “Mr. Stark” and then tries desperately to hold everything together or explain his screwups away when it blows up in his face. (Notably, all of the major action setpieces in the movie except the last one involve situations where Peter’s over-enthusiasm has actually created a bigger problem: foiling the bank robbery causes the bodega fire, his investigation of the alien power source causes the damage to the Washington Monument, his web-slinging damages the fission gun that damages the ferry, etc.) At the same time, he’s trying to live up to the image of what he thinks a super-hero ought to be, whether that’s in posing for commuters and doing backflips for hot dog vendors or making quips at bad guys (notably, his smart-alecking always comes off as a mixture of nervous posing and too much energy rather than coming off as mean).
But most importantly, at root Spiderman is a genuinely selfless hero – his first thought is to save the bodega owner and the bodega cat, he gives the ferry rescue everything he’s got even if he comes up short as 98% sucessful, he tells criminals to shoot at him rather than at anyone else, and in the film’s master-stroke, he goes all-out to save Adrian Toombs who’s repeatedly tried to kill him the moment he realizes that his wing-suit has gone unstable, because Spiderman doesn’t want to “instant death” anyone. And he’s utterly determined, as we see in the whole third act where he goes right after Toombs despite getting his ass kicked by the Shocker, then pulls himself out from the rubble Toombs buried him under, then gets himself onto the Quinjet then saves Coney Island from the crashing Quinjet, and on and on….

Antagonist
So…Michael Keaton. While not given a ton of time, Keaton does a great job reframing Adrian Toombs as the voice of blue collar upper-middle-class resentment, justifying theft and murder with his hatred of Tony Stark and the 1% on the one hand and the need to provide for his family on the other, and selling you on how this guy gives more and more reign to his dark side while trying to hang on to his hypocritical moral code. Also, it was an inspired idea to build on the idea of the Vulture being a scavenger by making him both a salvage operator and someone who later makes his money by stealing the aftermath of the Avengers’ battles and turns them into weapons. (BTW, even though the wings were re-done as military high-tech, they still had some personality – the way they draped down feather-like when he was resting on the billboard, the way he used them to pick up Peter and maybe use them as blades.)
Critically, the movie didn’t kill him off. See, Marvel’s villain problem isn’t always about how generic they are (although that was a problem for Malekith and Ronan the Accuser) but that they constantly kill off their villains which means that there’s no opportunity to build up a relationship between hero and villain – Robert Redford’s HYDRA true believer or Ultron would be great recurring villains, except they’re dead now. If Keaton ever wants to reprise his role, it would only take a jailbreak to put him back in the mix gunning for revenge according to his own code.
Also, the movie did a good job seeding future villains. We see the mantle (or rather the gage) of the Shocker get passed on in the film, the Tinkerer seems to get away in the end so is on hand for future movies, we get a great setup for why the Scorpion would go after Spiderman, and we even meet the Prowler who’d make for a great frenemy villain.
Secondary Cast
The kids are more than all right, they’re damn fantastic. Ned was a great audience stand-in as well as a voice of reason, was great as “the chair,” and even got to use the webshooters, Liz Allen nicely avoided a lot of “superhero girlfriend” pitfalls, Flash was a nice alternative to the over-used jock archetype, and Zendaya was a genuinely oddball presence who makes for a very different MJ than we’ve ever seen before (my friend @elanabrooklyn thinks that she’s basically comics Jessica Jones in all but name, which I would be ok with).
Marissa Tomei as Aunt May could have used more screen-time, but what there was, was great, from the ongoing gag that she’s completely oblivious to the fact that pretty much all the men in the service sector she meets are in lorb with her, to her very real mix of showing concern and trying to encourage while giving a teenager room, to her final F-bomb – which thankfully cut short the “Aunt May can’t know” storyline.
RDJ as Tony Stark actually didn’t over-shadow the film as much as people had worried – mostly, he’s there being simultaneously neglectful (answering some text messages, providing some encouragement outside of post-crisis situations, and actually explaining why you’re doing what you’re doing would be a good idea, Tony) and over-bearing (tracking devices and surveillance cameras are not a substitute for communicating, Tony), which is sort of how you’d expect him to handle being a mentor/surrogate father on his first go-round.
Plot
Despite how confident people were about what was going to happen in the movie from the trailers, the film actually did a great job throwing the unexpected at you, whether it’s the suburban lawn-chase sequence that wasn’t in the trailers, or the FBI showing up on the ferry, or the fact that Peter and Ned were directly responsible for the Washington Monument crisis, or why the Vulture and Spiderman were on a plane.
More importantly, the high school plot really really worked and intersected nicely with the superhero plot – Peter’s indecision about using his Spiderman persona to boost his and Ned’s social standing leading into the suburban lawn-chase, the Academic Decathalon giving the Washington Monument rescue real stakes, and best of all, the moment where Adrian Toombs opens the door for his daughter’s date and the commonplace dad/boyfriend tension goes into overdrive.
Well that was fast.
Some thoughts: first, as with previous trailers, it does a great job making Spiderman a teenager who goes to a high school (no offense to the Raimi Spiderman films, but you’ll notice Peter Parker barely interacts with anyone who isn’t plot-relevant), and establishing him as a person we care about. This new one also does a decent job giving us a motive for Michael Keaton’s Vulture that we can understand even if we don’t agree.
But I also want to say, I’m impressed by how good a job the trailer did at basic storytelling. I could go up to anyone who’s seen this on youtube and ask:
And I’d get a correct answer every time.
To start with, I would give Spiderman villains who’ve been done before – the Green Goblin, Doc Ock, Venom, the Lizard, etc. – a bit of a rest, unless some creator has a distinct enough vision for them to warrant their use so close to the ASM movies. Hobgoblin and Jack O Lantern kind of bite the Green Goblin’s style a bit too much, so hold off on them.
Chameleon would be a great insiduous villain, not your main physical threat but a great social/mental threat. Ditto Mysterio, if you can figure out how to make his signature costume work on screen. Vermin would work as a more physical/horror threat.
And I do have a fondness for Kraven the Hunter…
We haven’t even gotten a full MCU Spiderman movie yet, so it’s still early days. However, I do have to say that I buy Tom Holland more than I ever bought Andrew Garfield or Tobey Maguire – Tobey was always a bit too soft and saccharine for me to buy that he was the irreverent snarker behind the mask, whereas Andrew’s performance was way too much of an over-reaction to the backlash against Spiderman III, and came off as way too cool.
That’s the thing about Spiderman/Peter Parker that makes him tricky: he’s a nerd and a bit nebbishy (although he kind of ages out of that a little – there had to be something there that Mary Jane Watson liked), but once he puts the mask on, he gains the confidence to express himself, even if that is as a smart-alecky motor-mouth. There’s a side of Peter Parker that has an ego, a yearning to show the world that he’s not Puny Parker any more – after all, the first thing he did when he got super-powers was to get in front of TV cameras – that makes him prank J. Jonah Jameson to get back at him, or not just fight the Kingpin but relentlessly crack fat jokes at him.
As I’ve said above, it’s really easy to grab one part of that personality and not the other. And one of the things I really like about Tom Holland’s Spiderman is that I feel like you have both: he’s awkward and stuttery around Tony Stark, but he’s also showboating quite a bit at the airport fight.
So I’ve got my fingers crossed for Homecoming.
First of all, he’s got an absolutely ridiculous costume that is a fashion nightmare. Cheetah-print pants, zebra-stripe belt and cuffs, and a lion’s head vest with no shirt, plus the giant 70s stache and soul-patch. You couldn’t forget that look if you tried. So he passes the first test of a great villain: he’s instantly memorable.

Second, he’s got an amazing concept – a big game hunter who insists on killing hand-to-hand because anything else would be insufficiently manly, and who runs out of dangerous animals to kill with his bare hands so decides to hunt…Spider-Man. He doesn’t have some stupid grudge against Spider-Man because of something in their past, he’s not a career criminal or mobster – he just wants to prove he’s stronger than Spider-Man. There’s a purity and simplicity (and to be honest, irrationality – I mean, why Spider-Man and not the Hulk?) there that’s refreshing and novel.

Third, Kraven shot Spider-Man with a tranq dart, buried him alive, put on Spider-Man’s costume, and then went out to prove that he could out-Spider-Man Spider-Man…and actually succeeded, saving Mary Jane Watson’s life and single-handedly defeating Vermin (something Spider-Man hadn’t accomplished). When Spider-Man escaped from the grave, Kraven refused to fight him, having proven his point, and promptly confessed and committed suicide.

What I love about that is that Kraven’s ultimate villainous scheme is that he pulls off a permanent victory over Spider-Man that got into his head and affected him profoundly – you don’t get over being buried alive lightly – in a brilliantly orthagonal way. He doesn’t kill Spider-Man or one of his loved ones (looking at you, Green Goblin), he doesn’t clone Spider-Man or try to merge with Spider-Man or any of that nonesense. He beats Spider-Man thoroughly by out-doing him and then goes out on top so that Spider-Man doesn’t even get the chance for a come-back.
So there you have it, the basics of a quality villain: good look, good concept, memorable scheme/victory.
Following your response to the Iron Man question, do you have any thoughts on Peter Parker you could elaborate on?
Before you read this, go watch anything MovieBob has ever done on Spiderman, because that dude gets Spiderman.
He’s the ur-nerd power fantasy, that a pure accident could come along and transform you, the weak and socially awkward nebbish, give you super-strength, toughness, agility, and the ability to leap tall buildings in a single bound (webslinging basically being how people who grew up with skyscrapers all around them think about flying). Peter Parker isn’t born on Krypton and he’s not a billionaire playboy with a tragic past, he’s a nerdy kid from Queens who went to a science exhibit and became magic. Without Peter Parker and all the characters who followed him, you don’t get Harry Potter.

What saves him from becoming the Gamergate/Rapid Puppies/etc. toxic nerd is Uncle Ben and “with great power comes great responsibility.” It’s pretty remarkable that, out of Steve Ditko’s objectivist anti-populism, Marvel somehow ended up with a working class hero with a conscience. Spiderman rejects the path of personal fame and fortune in favor of selflessly protecting the people of New York because it’s the right thing to do. And despite J Jonah Jameson libelling him every damn day, the people of New York know he’s on their side:

Another thing that sets Spiderman apart from a lot of superheroes is that, even though he’s super-strong, he doesn’t look it. Spiderman doesn’t have the Charles Atlas body of so many superheroes – he’s scrawny, and though he’s pretty lanky, he’s still on the small side and he looks even smaller when you put him up against supervillains who are giant mountains of muscle. By his very design, Spiderman is an underdog:

Partly that’s because the nerd power-fantasy doesn’t work if the secret identity falls apart because Peter Parker suddenly looks like a linebacker, but mostly because Spiderman’s strength comes from within. At his best, he is the David against the Goliath, the little guy who stands up against the big guy and refuses to give up, ever.
