Tag: season 6

Thinking About the White Walkers and the COTF

So I was talking with @goodqueenaly about the whole Season 6 revelation that the Children of the Forest created the White Walkers, and our conversation crystallized some problems I have with this twist. 

  1. If the White Walkers were a weapon, why weren’t they used during the war between the First Men and the Children during the Dawn Age, given that that war was an existential crisis for the Children where they brought down the Hammer of Waters on the Arm of Dorne and the Neck?
  2. Why the two thousand year gap between the Pact that ended that war and the Long Night, which is the first recorded encounter between humans and White Walkers? 
  3. If the Long Night was so centered on Westeros, why are there records of the conflict across Essos, from the Rhoynar in the west (who tell of the hero of the Rhoyne who sang the secret song to bring back the day), to Asshai (where the legend of Azor Ahai was born), to the Bone Mountains (where the patrimony of Hyrkoon the Hero was founded), to Yi Ti (where the woman with the monkey’s tail saved the world from the Lion of Night, and the Pearl Emperor built the Five Forts to guard his lands from the Lion’s demons)?

Jon being King of the North: on what basis could he claim the throne? The North isn’t overthrowing monarchy/aristocracy, after all, they still all want their castles and titles, they just want to ignore Ned’s legitimate daughter in favor of his illegitimate son. What happens when it comes out he’s a Targ?

Jon is King in the North on the same grounds that Robb became King in the North – through right of acclamation as opposed to right of inheritance (since Robb’s father was not King in the North before him). It should be noted, moreover, that King in the North != Lord of Winterfell. 

As for him being illegitimate, Lady Mormont spoke for the majority: “I don’t care if he’s a bastard. Ned Stark’s blood runs through his veins.”

Him being a Targ will be a complicating factor, but when the Targaryens land on Westeros with a giant army and three dragons, having a Targ in your corner might not be a bad thing. 

About some of your doubts concerning the HBO show’s finale: given the results of Cersei’s last play (i.e. everyone else is dead), isn’t there enough of a political vacuum for Cersei to realistically be able to seize the throne without facing too much official protest about it? There is basically no credible claimant yet. The entire Baratheon/Lannister/Tyrell succession is extinct. Wouldn’t Cersei be the closest KL has to some semblance of political continuity? It is suicidal, yes, but right now?

As for a vacuum, in the city itself, there’s no one left to oppose her on the Small Council, the Sparrows are leaderless, and Cersei does have some guardsmen. But without any shred of popular legitimacy, all it takes is one good riot to bring it all tumbling down. 

And for outside the city, the Florents are the closest in proximity, followed by the Estermonts, followeed by the Targaryens themselves. Lannisters are way too remote. 

But as to continuity…the attraction of continuity is stability, security, and predictability. Cersei offers none of those things; she’s basically Aerys the Third. If allying with the Lannisters through a dynastic marriage, the closest form of alliance there is in Westeros, brings you death by wildfire, there’s literally no upside to being on her side, and no downside to opposing her because she’s going to kill you anyway. 

Dany’s arrival makes all this moot anyway. She’s got the two biggest Targaryen loyalists on her side, in the show anyway she’s got an ironclad claim to both the Targaryen succession and the Baratheon succession, she’s got an enormous army, and she’s got dragons. 

Thoughts on GoT 6×4:

Below the cut as per usual:

Castle Black:

– Loved pretty much everything here. Jon and Sansa’s reunion was incredibly heartwarming, it was great to see Sansa being the political mind behind Jon’s warrior. 

– Brienne being a dick to Davos and Melisandre wasn’t cool. Tormund trying to seduce her with his sensual eating habits was amazing. 

– I like that we really got a sense from this episode where the Northern plot is going, and a sense of narrative momentum. Good. 

The Vale:

– teenaged Robin Arryn is bigger, but just as nuts.

– watching Littlefinger run rings around Bronze Yohn Royce was the most impressive he’s been in seasons.

Meereen:

– Well, I feel more vindicated on my Meereen-is-Reconstruction argument now. Good to see Missandei and Grey Worm having political opinions on slavery and pushing back against Tyrion’s privileged bullshit while Tyrion still had a general point. Still would have worked better if Meereen was actually being besieged. 

Vaes Dothrak:

– oy vey. Daario and Jorah’s scenes were painfully bad.

– this show is making threats of rape against Dany cliched and trite, and that’s fucked up.

– final sequence would have worked a lot better with a 40 foot dragon towering behind Dany.

King’s Landing:

– as with Castle Black, definitely got a good sense of narrative momentum, with Cersei burying the hatchet with the Queen of Thorns and planning to take out the High Septon. 

– Jonathan Pryce is an amazing actor as always, but I feel like his scene with Margaery was lacking in motivation for him. What is he trying to get from Margaery? Just informing on her brother? Not enough to justify this much screen time. 

Pyke:

– well done, and a very unexpected and heartfelt end to that scene.

Winterfell:

– no scenes in Winterfell again? Weird. 

– joking aside, this shit is also getting cliched. We know Ramsay’s evil, you have shown us this over and over again to the point where it’s not interesting any more. 

– can’t wait to see what GRRM has in mind for Osha that isn’t this.

What are your thoughts on “Oathbreaker”? I have some concerns about parts…

So here’s my thoughts

Castle Black:

– I liked that Jon was genuinely messed up by what had happened to him.

– I liked Melisandre’s change of heart regarding the PWWP, and that Jon is being seen as a God is interesting.

– Jon executing his murderers and then leaving the NW very much answers that question, and sets him up to go lead Sansa’s army.

Oldtown:

– well, Sam’s going on a detour to Horn Hill, as expected. Interesting…

Tower of Joy:

– I was a bit underwhelmed by the staging of the fight itself, as I said on twitter. Ending it before we see Jon is a kind of hilarious tease, tho. 

– But Bran’s interactions were interesting…I wonder if we’re building to him going by himself into the past and finding out about Jons’ birth that way.

Vaes Dothrak:

– Eh. Underwhelmed by this whole storyline. 

Meereen:

– Loved Varys’ interrogation of the prostitute from last season. 

– Tyrion’s scene with Missandei and Grey Worm was a total waste of money. 

King’s Landing:

– finally starting to like this storyline, now that I see where things are going. Looks like Cersei and Jaime are planning to use Ser Gregor to assassinate the High Sparrow at either Cersei’s or Margaery’s trial. Definitely see a break between Cersei/Jaime/Qyburn and Kevan and the Tyrell.s

– Parents, tell your kids not to take candy from Qyburns.

Braavos:

– not sure why they didn’t just blend this with the previous scene of Arya getting her ass kicked, but it was good to see Arya learning the lying game, learning to poison by smell, and fight with her ears. 

The North:

– No scenes in Winterfell this week. Certainly no scene that slanders the Umbers by suggesting they’d stoop to Shaggydog murder.

Shireen Baratheon was sacrificed to the flames so R’hllor got his due. Whether Melisandre was doing it in her mind for the sake Stannis’ victory against House Bolton instead of Jon Snow’s resurrection (who was still alive at the time) a side point. Actions the main thing. Is R’hllor that bothered by motives?

No. A thousand times no. 

The sacrifice of Shireen Baratheon has absolutely nothing to do with Jon Snow. 

Hell, in the show, Jon hasn’t been attacked yet when that happens!

Another Spoilery Season 6 Ask

Again, below the cut:

how can Mel bring Jon back to life without a sacrifice? is this the show just being lazy do u think?

R’hlloric resurrection doesn’t require a sacrifice, just the prayer for the dead. Hence Thoror of Myr not needing a sacrifice to bring back Beric Dondarrion. 

This seems to me to be a bit of fanon, where people are conflating different magical systems and over-generalizing rules about how magics work. 

Season 6 Spoiler Asks

Ok, I got a bunch of questions that are themselves spoilery and figured I’ll answer them all at once under the cut to be super-careful about spoiling any of my followers who have gone no-show:

Given that the show said Bran will need meera outside the cave do you think it confims for the books as well and won’t stay their for the rest of the seies?

Confirms? No. Is it a good indication that I was right that Bran doesn’t stay in a tree forever? Yes.

Do you think Ramsay kills Roose in the books?

I could definitely see it happening, given the way that Ramsay has been behaving lately in the books. However, I’d like it to happen in a way that’s more engaging and thematically appropriate to the whole old king/young king dynamic – say, a duel to the death with flensing knives.

Do you think Game of thrones’ writers have forgotten that kinslaying is a major taboo in Westeros? In the first two episodes they’ve had kinslayers usurp power in plain view, and it looks like they are going to get away with it scot free. In episode 2 I’m talking about Ramsay killing his brother more then Ramsay killing Roose.

Well, the writers aren’t terribly good with any taboos – there was a lot of weirdness last season with them having Myrcella be pro-incest, for example. But I don’t think Ramsay’s getting away with anything scot-free. This is just him Kicking the Dog to set up his downfall this season.