Tag: R+L=J

Hey Dany during her wedding that that if Daario had loved her he would have taken her at sword point like Rhaegar took Lyanna. That implies that she does believe that Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna rather than running off with her but she still seems to have a high opinion of her brother that doesn’t seem to me can you explain it?

Well, this has to do with the idea of abduction as a trope in chivalric romance. In these stories, there really wasn’t a big difference between “running off with her” and “kidnapping.” Whether it’s Lancelot and Guinevere or Tristan and Iseult of chivalric romances, or the earlier Celtic sources whether Welsh or Irish (there’s a very similar story that’s part of the legend of Finn Mac Cool), the lady is married and is carried off by the knight against the wishes of her husband (hence why it’s called abduction/kidnapping and not elopment). 

Moreover, in a lot of these stories, there are very weird parallels between the very-much-married lady being kidnapped by a mysterious knight and spirited off to a strange castle in the Land of Summer or the Twisted Woods – and if all of this is starting to sound a lot like Faerie, you’re not wrong – from which she is rescued by the gallant knight (which is the spark for their falling in forbidden love) and the lady being rescued by the gallant knight from her husband’s wrath when the adultery is discovered, and spirited off to another castle, which is equally strange.

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To bring this around to Rhaegar and Lyanna, the name of the castle that Lancelot takes Guinevere back to is Joyous Gard/Joyeuse Garde. Gard/garde means a keep, a keep is a fortified tower, and thus we get the Tower of Joy. However, Joyous Gard has a deeper significance than just the name: in the beginning of the story, it’s known as Dolorous Gard because the castle has been put under an evil enchantment; Lancelot takes the castle and breaks the spell, but finds within the castle a tomb with his name on it, and knows that he is going to be buried there one day. When Guinevere visits his castle – at a time when she’s still with Arthur and Lancelot and Guinevere are holding to a chaste romance – Lancelot changes the name of the castle to Joyous Gard in her honor. When Lancelot and Guinevere give in to their passion and their adultery is discovered, the castle becomes Dolorous Gard again, suggesting a Fisher King-like situation where the purity of chaste love has become the impurity of carnal love, dooming the land just as their adultery has caused the fall of Camelot, even as the castle becomes the refuge of the lady and her knight. 

The point is there’s a lot of doubling: the good knight and the evil knight, the lady fair and the adulterous queen, the good castle and the evil castle, and thus (to get all the way back to your ask) the kidnapper and the rescuer. 

Chapter-by-Chapter Analysis: Bran II, ASOS

Chapter-by-Chapter Analysis: Bran II, ASOS

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“If the little crannogman could visit the Isle of Faces, maybe I could too.”
Synopsis: Bran is told one story by the Liddle and one story by Meera.
SPOILER WARNING: This chapter analysis, and all following, will contain spoilers for all Song of Ice and Fire novels and Game of Thrones episodes. Caveat lector.
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Does anyone besides Ned, Howland Reed, and maybe Benjen know about R+L=J? Specifically, has Howland Reed told Meera and Jojen? Do you think Rhaegar told anyone that Lyanna was pregnant other than the three Kingsguard who died at the Tower of Joy? If not, when (if ever) did Rhaegar plan on publicly revealing he had fathered a son with Lyanna?

That’s a good question. Here’s the thing, there’s people who know parts of the story – Howland Reed told his kids about the Knight of the Laughing Tree, so they may well have guessed that Lyanna ran away with Rhaegar, but I don’t think he told them about the Tower of Joy (it’s possible Jojen saw it in a vision) although they may have put two and two together

Likewise, I’ve always been under the impression that the older folks at House Dayne know, since Ned stayed there with baby Jon until Jon was able to travel and their servant Wylla was Jon’s wetnurse and likely Lyanna’s midwife – after all, Arthur Dayne was the closest to home of any of the knights at the Tower of Joy, and he’s definitely going to send to home for a servant to help with the birthing of a royal child since that’s completely outside his wheelhouse. Also, this always made sense to me as both the simplest and most tragic answer to how Ned knew where to find Lyanna: Ashara Dayne told her lover where to find his sister, and that’s a big part of the reason she took her life. 

As for Rhaegar, he may may have told some of his closest confidants like Richard Lonmouth, but I doubt it. And I have no idea how he was planning that particular revelation. 

Can you shed some light on your take on the whole R+L=J theory? What are your thoughts on the timeline with Rhaegar and Lyanna, and the rebellion? How do Ned and Ashara Dayne fit into it?

Well, R+L=J. It’s pretty clear. Timeline-wise, we learned a lot from WOIAF.

Rhaegar and Lyanna disappeared very close to the Tourney at Harrenhal – around 2-3 months close. Lyanna was in the area of the Gods Eye to be “abducted” because she was, in all likelihood, staying at Riverrun prepping for her brother’s wedding. Note that this timing almost certainly excludes Brandon from being Jon’s father, and probably excludes Ashara from being Jon’s mother with either Stark. 

Here’s what I think happened with Ned and Ashara – I think the two of them fell for each other and hooked up at Harrenhal (Ser Barristan wasn’t at the tent at the time and probably jumped to the same conclusion that much of the fandom did, given Brandon’s rep). At the time, as Harwin points out, both of them were unmarried and a fairly good match – he was the second son of a Great House, she was the daughter of a Lesser House and no heiress. They probably hoped that they would get married shortly, and I wouldn’t be surprised if they were actually betrothed or in the process of becoming betrothed.

And then things went to shit. Lyanna disappears, Brandon hulks out, Elia’s abandoned by her husband, then Brandon’s arrested, Rickard shows up for the trial, and both of them are dead. Suddenly, Eddard is a rebel on the run for his life and Ashara is trapped on the other side, torn between her loyalty to Elia and her love for Ned. 

At some point in this process, a few things happen, and I’m not sure in what precise order they happen: 

  • Ashara Dayne is sent home when she begins to show.
  • Ned returns to the South at the head of an army.
  • Elia and her children are taken from Dragonstone to Storm’s End. This must have happened after Ashara is sent away, because Ashara is not in King’s Landing during the Sack.
  • Rhaegar reappears with the Dornish troops.  
  • Arthur Dayne reaches out to his sister for help with Lyanna’s pregnancy, and Wylla, a longtime retainer at Starfall, is sent to the Tower of Joy as midwife and nursemaid. 
  • Ned and Ashara meet for the penultimate time, Ned finds out where Lyanna has been hidden. 
  • Ned is told that he has to marry Catelyn Tully in order to fulfill the pact made by his father and keep the rebel alliance intact, and does so. 
  • Ashara, now forsaken by Ned and carrying a bastard instead of a euphemistically-premature trueborn child, suffers a miscarriage. 

Then comes the Trident, the Sack, and the lifting of the Siege of Storm’s End. His duty to Robert fulfilled, Ned is free to ride full-tilt for the Tower of Joy. He arrives, and he and his companions fight Ser Arthur Dayne, Ser Gerold Hightower, and Ser Oswell Whent. Only Ned, Howland Reed, and the servants (including Wylla) are left alive.

Ned takes Dawn back to Starfall and meets Ashara for the last time. The two of them are wracked with grief – for a lost child, for her brother, for his brother and sister and father, for the life together they cannot have. The pain and the guilt are too much for Ashara to bear, and she kills herself. 

Ned remains at Starfall – rather than blaming him, the Daynes recognize his honor, their mutual loss, and the cruelty of fate – until Jon is ready to depart. The Daynes agree to keep his secret, and help spread the story that Jon is Wylla’s son, a story that Ned repeats to Robert in King’s Landing, and probably spreads on his boat-ride back to Winterfell via the Three Sisters. 

Ned and Catelyn’s marriage, already a rocky start in which both are forced to put their family’s interests above their own personal desires, is further strained by Ned’s cover story.