Hello, Can you explain more deeply why Asha wanted Sea Dragon Point and the Stoney Shore? Or at least what the Iron Islands could do with these two places. SDP apparently has bogs, which is one of the places that has peat (useful for heating purposes). Also, do you have estimates how much more territory the Iron Islands would have if they got those two places? Would it double? I think that if Asha thought she had a shot at the Kingsmoot then these places must have potential use. Thanks.

In general, she chooses thoses areas because they’re coastal, and thus would be easier for Ironborn to reinforce and resupply in the event that the Northmen tried to take them back, and easier to get Ironborn to settle since they’re not trying to get fishermen to become fishermen, and because the Ironborn have held them in the past.

As to why those places specifically, Sea Dragon point likely belongs to House Glover (given its proximity to Deepwood Motte) and thus would be land that House Glover could transfer legally to the Ironborn, providing legitimacy to Asha’s conquest. Stony Shore, which the Ironborn occupied during the War of Five Kings, probably doesn’t have any other population than the fishing villages (because of the poor quality of the soil), and thus may indeed have been (temporarily) depopulated by Theon’s raids, which will make it easier for the Ironborn to continue to hold.

In terms of how much space, Asha describes them as “ten times larger than all the isles put together.” I estimate (*WARNING: A HISTORIAN IS DOING MATH*) the Iron Islands is about 16-25,000 square miles, that Sea Dragon Point is about 17,000 square miles, and the Stony Shore is maybe 20,000 square miles, so Asha is exaggerating somewhat, but the overall point isn’t wrong.

Why do you think did Asha, in her Kingsmoot speech, suggest the idea of the Ironborn acquiring parts of the Stoney Shore/Sea Dragon Point from the Starks, instead of lands on Cape Kraken/Flints Finger?

Because Asha still held Deepwood Motte, which is the main seat of power in the Sea Dragon Point region, and Flint’s Finger was still held by the North, and while Asha had an agreement with Lady Glover, she didn’t have one with the Flints.

Does House Arryn have any lands, either direct or through a vassal house, on the western side of the Mountains of the Moon (excluding the area west of Wickenden? I’m particularly interested in the region of the SW corner of the Bite? Various sources (Wiki, ridiculous WorldoIaF maps) indicate that it belongs to the Arryns, yet my common sense and the canon history of the region (pre-Conquest, through the Targ’s reign and the novels themselves) all point to this being near impossible. (1)Thoughts?

Continuation of my Q about the SW corner of the Bite: (2) If this region belonged to the Tullys, would it be a good location for a port town in the context of your Economic Development Plan for the Riverlands? (3) If it is House Arryn’s *cough!, would it be worth the trouble to get your hands on the lands?

1. I’m assuming you mean that strip of land along the coast immediately south of the Sisters, and not the part of the Riverlands along the kingsroad (which the Valemen tried to capture during the reign of Rolland II Arryn, who was defeated and later beheaded by Tristifer V Mudd).

It’s a bit tricky, because that land doesn’t always exist, depending on the map. (Incidentally, the World of Ice and Fire map of the Vale is completely rubbish – somehow putting the Mountains of the Moon smack-dab on top of the Vale proper, to the east of the Bloody Gate) Some of the various book maps, for example, as well as Tear’s fan map (which GRRM endorsed pre-Lands of Ice and Fire), show the mountains coming up right to the coast as opposed to having this decent stretch of level ground.

Now, I don’t think it’s that impossible for this land (if it exists) to Arryn rather than Tully – for one thing, it’s substantially to the east of the Mountains of the Moon, which seems to have been the historical boundary between the Riverlands and the Vale. It’s also really close to the Sisters and the northernmost Fingers, suggesting that historically those lands would have been in the orbit of either the Sunderlands or the Coldwaters or the Belmores or the Lynderlys or the Corbrays.

2. As a port…eh. It’s got a couple problems in that White Harbor and the Sisters are already-established competitors really close by, so you’re going to struggle to get off the ground. Exporting your goods into the Vale itself is going to either involve sailing all the way around the coast, in which case why not cut out the middleman and sell to Gulltown directly, or an incredibly expensive and risky mountain portage. If instead you want to export to the south or west, you’re going to run into some pretty steep rent-seeking from the Riverlords (especially the Freys if you want to access Seagard’s port), and it’s not really that much of a time saving compared to just going to White Harbor and taking the Kingsroad all the way down.

3. It honestly depends on how productive these potentially non-existent lands are. The Riverlands aren’t exactly wanting for farmland, and they have easier ways to access the Narrow Sea through Maidenpool and Saltpans and the like. And it would be very hard to hang onto them, because they could be pretty easily cut off by a force landing from the Sisters.

Do you know which road is connected to the King’s Gate, Dragon Gate, and Old Gate of King’s Landing? I know 1) Lion Gate/Goldroad 2) River Gate/Southern Kingsroad and Roseroad 3) Iron Gate/Rosby Road 4) Gate of the Gods/ Northern Kingsroad. The other 3 elude me. Any ideas?

You’re right, it’s a bit confusing. The King’s Gate is connected to the Tourney Grounds, but it looks like there’s a road leading west, which I would guess leads along the Rush to the ford nearest to the city as an alternative to using the ferries.

According to the Wiki of Ice and Fire, the Dragon’s Gate is connected to the Kingsroad, but that’s contradicted by the info about the Gate of the Gods. There is a mention in the Princess and the Queen that during the riots, “Rhaenyra and a small band of followers slipped out through the Dragon Gate, intending to make their way up the coast to Duskendale.” Which suggests that there might be a direct road from Duskendale to King’s Landing as well as the Rosby Road.

The Old Gate, being in between the Gate of the Gods and the Iron Gate and thus in between the Kingsroad and the Rosby Road, is a puzzle. My guess is that there may be or have been a direct route to Maidenpool from King’s Landing.

Steven Xue Asks: Why didn’t the Ironborn reave an independent Dorne?

I’ve been going through the World Book and I find it strange how during the first century and a half of living under Targaryen rule when Dorne was still an independent kingdom at that time, the Ironborn didn’t take the opportunity to go there for pillage and plunder. I can understand that after submitting to Targaryen rule the Ironborn stopped raiding lands that are under the protection of the Iron Throne as they would not stand a chance against the combined might of the Seven Kingdoms (as Balon Greyjoy would later learn).

However during the time Dorne was still a sovereign country it was outside of the Crown’s jurisdiction so it wasn’t off limits. Surely Dorne should have been the perfect hub for Ironborn raids during the years before it was finally integrated into the Seven Kingdoms. It is closer to home than the lands beyond Westeros and it’s very rich. Its coastal regions especially like Planky Town which brought in a lot of trade seem like ideal targets for eager Ironborn captains as there is plenty to plunder there and they could take their chances with the Martells as there would have been no interference from the Iron Throne.

Given how tenacious the Ironborn have proven themselves to be throughout history when it came to sating their desire to pillage and plunder and attacking pretty much anywhere that’s vulnerable (eg. The North), what was stopping them from conducting full scale raids in Dorne?

They probably did raid Dornish trade in the Narrow Sea, but the thing about Dorne’s southern coastline is that it’s really not good for sailing: “Nor is the long southern coast of Dorne more hospitable, being for the most part a snarl of reefs and rocks, with few protected anchorages. Those ships that do put ashore there, whether by choice or chance, find little to sustain them; there are no forests along the coast to provide timber for repairs, a scarcity of game, few farms, and fewer villages where provisions might be obtained. Even freshwater is hard to come by, and the seas south of Dorne are rife with whirlpools and infested with sharks and kraken.”

So the basic problem is that the Ironborn couldn’t really raid anywhere in between Skyfall and Plankytown because there aren’t really any coastal villages to raid. Also, the trip to Plankytown is a pain in the ass – if a storm blows up, you’re going to be wrecked and unable to repair your longboat or find food and water, and that’s assuming you don’t get eaten by sharks and krakens.

So my guess is that what the Ironborn would do instead is to run the gauntlet to the Narrow Sea and then prey on Dornish shipping there.