Does the faith consider homosexuality a sin or is that so!ething the show made up?

faustandluce:

racefortheironthrone:

It seems to be a show-only thing. After all, there have been a number of very prominent LGBT figures in the history of Westeros – Laenor Velaryon, Prince Daeron, Daemon II, etc. – and you’d think that if it was as significant a sin as it is on the show, it would have come up when these figures were potential candidates for the Iron Throne.  

However, there doesn’t seem to be widespread social acceptance either, given that (for example) the majority of the LGBT characters we encounter get married to people not of their sexual orientation, although this seems as much (if not more) about pulling their weight in their family by producing heirs and making dynastic alliances as it does about remaining closeted. 

Indeed, if we can take Cersei’s ruminations about Renly as any metric, rather than seeing sexuality as something set in stone, it seems to be described as a general preference but not an exclusive one: “a man may prefer the taste of hippocras, yet if you set a tankard of ale before him, he will quaff it quick enough.”  

Do we have any idea how this plays out among the smallfolk? All of the examples of gay westerosi that I can think of are highborn, which might give them the freedom to be a little more open about it, especially since dynastic marriages and children are expected regardless of your romantic preferences.

Satin, for instance (who may not, of course, be gay) gets disrespected a fair amount at the Wall. It certainly seem possible that the social stigma around homosexuality is a much bigger deal without the privilege of social class. Moreover, it seems as though The Faith of The Seven, with its well defined gender roles, is a lot more militant among the lower classes of Westeros, which could add to the social stigma of LGBT Westerosi smallfolk.

Speaking of which, lesbians seem a lot thinner on the ground in Westeros than gay men. presumably this indicates some additional social stigma? I’d suggest that it’s similar to the class issue, another kind of privilege that men have that is denied to women.

Gay smallfolk…hmmm. Well, I think Varys and Illyrio were ex-lovers, but neither of them are Westerosi. In terms of smallfolk attitudes, no one at the Wall seems to bat an eye at Alf of Runnymudd and Garth, altho some are disrespectful of Satin. This might be a hypocrisy angle common to many societies – that the older, presumed top, partner is acceptably manly, whereas the younger, presumed bottom, partner is seen as having taken on the feminine role and is scorned not so much for having sex with men but being too femme. (See George Chauncey’s Gay New York for how this viewpoint continued through the early 20th century)

As for lesbianism, I think this is a weird offshoot of patriarchy, namely that women’s sexual desire isn’t deemed as something important (as long as it’s not screwing with male line of descent). Hence the Bible doesn’t mention female-female sex while it does discuss male-male sex, hence Japanese texts from the Medieval period through to the 18th century having a well-worked out typology for male sexuality while largely ignoring female sexuality outside of the male context. 

So to go back to Westeros, no one blinks an eye at the idea that highborn women might have their handmaidens sleeping in the same bed (whereas they’d freak out at the idea of an unmarried highborn women sleeping in the same bed as a man), and neither Cersei nor Dany seem to have any conception of any taboo existing when they have sex with women. And if we take Lady Sabitha Frey nee Vypren, the fact that she was “fond of…kissing women” seems to have been treated as a kind of outgrowth of her performing other aspects of masculinity like wearing armor, riding horses, and fighting in battle. 

How much money/valuables each kingdom produce annualy? As in a lord paramount’s yearly budget, and what they could save up every average year, since winter years are probs sinkholes moneywise and in the north I can even see complete economic halt. The russian tzars wealth came in huge parts from the fur of Siberia, erratic winters should make it even more valuable, no?

I estimate that the GDI of Westeros is somewhere around 525 million dragons a year. Dividing that by the population of the Seven Kingdoms, you get an extremely rough estimate of something like:

  • the North: GDI of 46 million a year.
  • the Vale: GDI of 40 million a year.
  • Dorne: GDI of 20 million a year.
  • the Crownlands: GDI of 20 million a year.
  • the Stormlands: GDI of 33 million a year.
  • the Westerlands: GDI of 59 million a year.
  • the Reach: GDI of 131 million a year.
  • Iron Islands: GDI of 13-20 million a year. 
  • the Riverlands: GDI of 26-57 million a year.

Now, these are very crude breakdowns of national GDI by population, which leaves out that these regions have very different rates of GDI per capita. The North should be somewhat lower than its numbers suggest due to the poorer quality of the soil and the toll of the winters, Dorne somewhat richer due to its high-quality textiles, the Westerlands much much more due to their gold and their industry, and the Riverlands is a big question mark given that it’s population and army size don’t really match up. 

Chapter-by-Chapter Analysis: Jaime I, ASOS

Chapter-by-Chapter Analysis: Jaime I, ASOS

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“He remembered the pail Lady Catelyn had kicked over in his cell. A strange woman, to trust her girls to a man with shit for honor.” Synopsis: Brienne takes Jaime and Ser Cleos down the river, where they are almost caught by Ser Robin Ryger. SPOILER WARNING: This chapter analysis, and all following, will contain spoilers for all Song of Ice and Fire novels and Game of Thrones episodes. Caveat…

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R’hlloric resurrection doesn’t require a third party sacrifice, but Thoros states that he loses a little of his own ‘life force’ every time he performs the ritual. Do you think the blow will be greater for Melisandre since she is so old and possibly frailer than she seems?

That’s not really what Thoros says:

“Thoros, how many times have you brought me back now?”

The red priest bowed his head. “It is R’hllor who brings you back, my lord. The Lord of Light. I am only his instrument.”

“How many times?” Lord Beric insisted.

“Six,” Thoros said reluctantly. “And each time is harder. You have grown reckless, my lord. Is death so very sweet?“ 

Thoros is saying that it is harder to bring Beric back from the dead, not that he himself is losing life force in the attempt. 

Another Spoilery Season 6 Ask

Again, below the cut:

how can Mel bring Jon back to life without a sacrifice? is this the show just being lazy do u think?

R’hlloric resurrection doesn’t require a sacrifice, just the prayer for the dead. Hence Thoror of Myr not needing a sacrifice to bring back Beric Dondarrion. 

This seems to me to be a bit of fanon, where people are conflating different magical systems and over-generalizing rules about how magics work. 

Season 6 Spoiler Asks

Ok, I got a bunch of questions that are themselves spoilery and figured I’ll answer them all at once under the cut to be super-careful about spoiling any of my followers who have gone no-show:

Given that the show said Bran will need meera outside the cave do you think it confims for the books as well and won’t stay their for the rest of the seies?

Confirms? No. Is it a good indication that I was right that Bran doesn’t stay in a tree forever? Yes.

Do you think Ramsay kills Roose in the books?

I could definitely see it happening, given the way that Ramsay has been behaving lately in the books. However, I’d like it to happen in a way that’s more engaging and thematically appropriate to the whole old king/young king dynamic – say, a duel to the death with flensing knives.

Do you think Game of thrones’ writers have forgotten that kinslaying is a major taboo in Westeros? In the first two episodes they’ve had kinslayers usurp power in plain view, and it looks like they are going to get away with it scot free. In episode 2 I’m talking about Ramsay killing his brother more then Ramsay killing Roose.

Well, the writers aren’t terribly good with any taboos – there was a lot of weirdness last season with them having Myrcella be pro-incest, for example. But I don’t think Ramsay’s getting away with anything scot-free. This is just him Kicking the Dog to set up his downfall this season.  

I was refered to you by Goodqueenaly. “How exactly would Stannis go about repaying the Iron Throne’s debt to the Iron Bank, assuming he wins? Would he “nationalize” the Lannister’s assets as punishment for more or less making Westeros into hell on earth?”

Hi. You’re pretty much on the nose. As Stannis sees it, Cersei cuckolded and then murdered the King, which is treason twice over, Jaime is a kingslayer and a breaker of the King’s Peace, Tywin broke the King’s Peace and then attacked the King’s banner, and the rest of the family aided and abetted. 

So the first thing that happens without a doubt is that the Crown’s debt to House Lannister is cancelled – not defaulted on, but as another form of seizure of assets. That takes care of half of the Crown’s total debt. 

Next, Casterly Rock and its lands and incomes reverts to the Crown. It’s unlikely that Stannis holds it permanently – the Westerosi custom that one person should not have two great seats would probably sway him, as would the difficulty of governing two seats 800 or so miles away. Rather, I’m guessing Stannis would fine the Rock to clear the Crown’s debts to the Church and the Tyrells and the Bank, and then give the Rock to some loyal house. 

But the Rock could easily withstand that kind of penalty. Short of complete confiscation, Casterly Rock is going to be a power in the land, no matter who holds it. 

Given the absence of a police force beyond the primitive “hue and cry” for pre-modern societies, how was more subtle and sophisticated crime like extortion, embezzlement, fraud etc combated? People like Littlefinger could collectively pose an existential threat to commerce and taxation if left unchecked, one imagines.

Well, you have to keep in mind that most pre-modern societies had very very small financial sectors, and involved far fewer people. So it was harder to operate anonymously in those sectors. Also, pre-modern financiers tended to be much more conservative in terms of who they loaned to, the terms they would lend at, etc. 

A good deal of fraud and embezzlement actually took place in the core agricultural sector, however. Fudging the accounts, making sick animals look healthy and vice versa, adulterating quality of products so that you can skim off the top, literally putting your thumb on the scales when it came to weighing goods, etc. 

So how did they deal with it? Well, because of the centrality of agriculture, there was a pretty sophisticated system of food inspection, and fraudulent bakers and other vendors were publicly humiliated by dragging them around the streets (either on a sled or hurdle, which added a measure of public humiliation) with their adulterated goods hanging around their neck, so that the consuming public knew who not to frequent. The pillory was frequently used to punish commercial fraud, as both a method of informing the public and as an outsourcing of physical punishment to the crowd.  

And those were relatively light punishments for financial crimes – if you were caught committing forgery, the penalty was death by either boiling oil or by having molten metal poured down your throat. In England, after 1278, stealing over four pence worth of goods was punished with the hangman’s noose. And so on and so forth. 

What would you think of my opinion that the Drowned God’s resemblance to Cthulhu is only superficial. The ironborn give off the “stupid-crazy” vibe, not the “eldritch-crazy” vibe. Their version of divinity seems more along the lines of Odin mixed with a really dark interpretation of Christ. I mean, its kind of hard to be driven mad by knowledge when education, literacy, and intelligence are considered unholy. (Patchface could’ve easily seen Elenei’s dad, all sea gods need not be the same)

Well, this is more @boiledleather‘s specialty than mine, but…

  • there’s the legend of the Seastone Chair predating humanity and it’s made out of the same oily black stone found at the base of the Hightower, the Isle of Toads, the city of Yeen, the city of Asshai, the Five Forts, etc. That oily black stone is linked by Maester Theron to the Deep Ones.
  • Speaking of Maester Theron, he argued in his Strange Stone that “These Deep Ones, as he names them, are the seed from which our legends of merlings have grown, he argues, whilst their terrible fathers are the truth behind the Drowned God of the ironborn.

  • The Ironborn believe that “we did not come to these holy islands from godless lands across the sea…we came from beneath those seas, from the watery halls of the Drowned God, who made us in his likeness,” which makes “the ironmen…closer kin to fish and merlings than the other races of mankind.”
  • the Grey King, first of the Ironborn King, “took a mermaid to wife, so his sons and daughters might live above the waves or beneath them as they chose.”

Seems a bit more than superficial to me. Or maybe you’re trying to fool the surface world into thinking the Deep Ones don’t exist…

how could karstark army come back home with the greyjoy occupied moat cailin? thank you

poorquentyn:

racefortheironthrone:

Not sure what you mean. The surviving Karstark infantry came back after Ramsay retook Moat Cailin. The Karstarks who join Stannis never left the North. 

Hmm, the question might be how the Karstark men who broke from Robb and were hunting for Jaime intended to go home after they killed him? Which, I don’t recall, were any of those with Roose went he returned to the North? 

Ah, that makes more sense. Some thoughts:

1. It’s easier for part of three hundred men on horse to make it back into the North than it is for several thousand foot, especially if you can parlay the promise of a bag of gold to passage on a ship. 

2. They’re kind of screwed no matter what they do – their lord just turned rebel, the Ironborn hold the North, etc. So might as well go out having killed the Kingslayer. 

3. There’s a Northern tradition of “going out hunting” in winter that’s basically suicidal. One variant of that is Northern warriors going off to war/raid until someone kills them, in a kind of suicide-by-cop. Hence Roddy the Ruin, Cregan’s army of old men, the unmarried, and younger sons, etc.