Tag: asoiaf meta

stewardship generally isn’t hereditary in asoiaf and many stewards seem to be glorified servants (or viewed that way). so why did the gardeners “reward” the tyrells (for what seems to be awesome service) by making their family the stewards permanently? would an ambitious and clever family like theirs have had better prospects in the long run if they hadn’t been made stewards or was that the best they could’ve hoped for?

This strikes me as a bit of fanon. Stewards have last names, it’s considered an honorable enough title to have Lord Stewards of the Watch and High Stewards of the Vale, etc. Stewards are very close to lords and kings – Eddard says to give his letter to Stannis only and “not his steward, nor the captain of his guard, nor his lady wife,” which shows you how close. 

Remember, in a feudal society, proximity to the king is power. So in our world, noblemen competed to get the position of being the Groom of the Stool despite the fact that most people today would consider that extremely degrading labor. 

FULL Analysis of New Winds of Winter Excerpt: “The Forsaken” (Aeron I)

FULL Analysis of New Winds of Winter Excerpt: “The Forsaken” (Aeron I)

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THIS IS NOT A DRILL, REPEAT, NOT A DRILL.
At Balticon 2016 the other night, GRRM read out a brand-new Aeron Damphair chapter from TWOW. Many many thoughts on the chapter below the cut:
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Not sure if you’ve been asked this before, but: How realistic is it that there was no substantial city at the mouth of the Blackwater before Aegon’s conquest? It’s the best natural harbor on the continent, at the mouth of a significant river, in a fertile area, and more conveniently located for intercontinental trade than Oldtown or Lannisport.

So a couple things:

1. Technically speaking, King’s Landing isn’t a harbor. A harbor is a deep body of water along the coast that ships can dock at, that’s protected from the winds and waves. King’s Landing is a riverrine port, with its docks in the Blackwater Rush, as opposed to out on the bay itself. (Compare the geography of King’s Landing to say, Volantis or Braavos) 

2. According to WOIAF, it seems largely due to political disunity: “in the days of the Hundred Kingdoms, many petty kings had claimed dominion over the river mouth, amongst them the Darklyn kings of Duskendale, the Masseys of Stonedance, and the river kings of old…Towers and forts had crowned the three hills at various times, only to be thrown down in one war or another. Now only broken stones and overgrown ruins remained.” As a result of war, therefore, King’s Landing remained undeveloped and you didn’t get enough of a concentration of people necessary to attract trade.

Dany won’t burn Aegon because: she is not a pyromaniac, has no proof that Aegon is fake, Aegon has done nothing to piss her off (even killed/defeated her enemies for her), Aegon is a kinsman offering her an alliance (burning him is not exactly great PR), Aegon is a Targaryen with public support etc. I can see potential conflict but it goes against Danny to do this sort of thing

Totally disagree. 

Dany’s decisions about a lot of things are driven by prophecy, as we see with the “three treasons.” And in Aegon’s case, Dany has prophetic reasons to believe that Aegon is false – the mummer’s dragon – especially when she turns up and Varys the Mummer shows up by his side and realizes that Varys and Illyrio have been double-dealing with her. 

And in terms of pissing her off – he’ll have taken her throne. Yes, he’ll be offering her an alliance, but as one of his (multiple) queens. Dany is not about that any more. She’s the Mother of Dragons, the hero heralded by prophecy, and she is done making peace. 

Matt Asks: House Guardsmen

This may have been asked before, but the Great Houses at least (Stark, Lannister, Baratheon, Arryn, ect) all have large bodies of Guardsmen (who I assume are the equivalent of men-at-arms at least) who seem a separate class from household knights. 

Would these be the equivalents of personal retainers for these Houses, and do any ‘lesser’ Houses have them?

Pretty much all noble houses above the lowly position of Ser Eustace Osgrey have guardsmen – in fact, they’re obligated to have them, as part of their feudal contract to supply fighting men to their liege lord. 

Take Rohanne Webber, for example. House Webber is a minor house, a vassal to a Lesser (though principal) House, with one modest castle and ~60 tiny villages worth of peasants. And yet Lady Webber can assemble 33 fighting men, including six knights and six squires (plus Longinch), a dozen mounted crossbowmen, and nine men-at-arms, without calling a general levy. 

What is the difference between tax farming and collecting rents in the context of Westeros? Like for the smallfolk in the Crownlands, would I deal with a tax collector (to pay taxes to the king) and an overseer (if I live on lands owned by the king)? What about in other regions? Sorry if this is a really silly question or if I am misunderstanding something. My English is not the best.

There’s quite a few differences. 

  1. Who you pay: in traditional feudal taxes and rent, you’re paying to the lord of the fief, who is bound by recriprocal feudal obligations, the custom of noblesse oblige, and a certain long-term interest in keeping his tenants a going concern. With tax–farming, you’re dealing with a middleman who is bound by nothing and has no long-term interests at all, since tax-farming contracts are usually strictly time-limited. 
  2. How much you pay: traditional feudal taxes and rents were fixed by custom and law, and usually recorded as well. While this had the effect of making past injustices very hard to shift, it also meant stability and predictability. Tax-farmers, by contrast, paid for their contract through an auction process, were looking to turn a profit on their investment, and could impose whatever rates they wanted to – which meant higher rates and substantial unpredictability.
  3. What you pay: a lot of feudal taxes and rents were either in kind or in the form of labor, which is handy when you’re a farmer who has lots of agricultural produce but not much cash on hand. Tax-farmers are far less interested in going through the messy process of storing and selling these goods, and tend to want cash on hand, which is not good for farmers. 

There’s also an issue of sub-infeudation – i.e, the layering of land ownership from king down to lord to lesser lord to knight to peasant. So normally in the Crownlands you would pay your rent and your taxes to your local knight or lord, and then they’d pay their feudal taxes to their liege lord, who pays their taxes to the lord of the principle house, who pays their taxes to the king. 

If you lived on the King’s own land as opposed to lands that he gives out as fiefs to the various lords of the Crownlands, you have a simplified system where you pay your taxes and rents directly to the King as your liege lord. Unless the king sells the right to collect to some tax farmer…

Chapter-by-Chapter Analysis: Catelyn I, ASOS

Chapter-by-Chapter Analysis: Catelyn I, ASOS

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She was a widow, a traitor, a grieving mother, and wise, wise in the ways of the world. Synopsis: Catelyn is put under house arrest at her own urging, comes to a realization about her father, gets some news about Robb, and gets into a fight with Edmure. All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way… SPOILER WARNING: This chapter analysis, and all following, will…

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Steven Xue Asks: Was Tywin really a slaver?

You have criticized Tywin on numerous occasions of “breaking one of the oldest Westerosi taboos” which is slavery. Now I hate to nitpick on this issue because I am no expert in this matter but isn’t what he did in Harrenhal a form of state bondage in a time of war rather than actual slavery? Weren’t the captives at Harrenhal technically POWs? And usually in any war, don’t captured prisoners (whether they are enemy soldiers or civilians) get conscripted into doing forced labor without pay and had few if any rights at all during their time of involuntary servitude? 

I don’t really see a distinction between “state bondage in a time of war” and “actual slavery,” I guess. At the end of the day, it’s still involuntary labor extracted through force and threat of force. 

POW status is usually reserved for enemy soldiers, not civilians, and the taking of large numbers of civilian prisoners is highly unusual. And there really is no precedent for this in previous Westerosi wars – we’ve seen attacks on civilian populations before, but we haven’t seen peasants kidnapped and forced into servitude before. 

The only thing that comes close is “Lord Lymond Hightower, the Sea Lion, who revived the practice of thralldom in Oldtown just long enough to set the ironmen captured during the battle to hard labor strengthening the city’s walls.” But even then, that’s enemy soldiers and temporary. 

Could you expand on why you think Arianne will marry Aegon? When reading Arianne II it seems that Elia Sand is the more likely to get involved with him, based on her defiant personality, impetuousness, and exploring her sexuality. Arianne is more consumed by maintaining her status as heir to Dorne and wondering if Quentyn’s return would change anything. And Connington would never allow it; Aegon’s hand needs to be kept open, so if it happens it’s probably in secret and done quickly.

Arianne wants to achieve her father’s ambitions of destroying the Lannisters – “my father entrusted this task to me” – Aegon has an army in the field and is marching on King’s Landing right now.

Arianne doesn’t like the idea of King Quentyn – “will I need to kneel to him” – marrying Aegon makes her Queen, just as Doran had intended with his marriage pact to Viserys, and cuts out Quentyn too. 

Connington wants to keep Aegon’s hand open for Dany, but Aegon might not agree. Aegon’s whole deal is that he’s aggressive and ambitious and isn’t willing to wait – here comes Arianne Martell who has armies now, not “one day.” He’ll overrule Connington, as he did with Storm’s End and with Rolly, and he’ll use Arianne’s spears to take King’s Landing, seemingly vindicated. 

And then Dany will show up. Aegon might offer her a tripartite marriage, but she’s not going to be interested in negotiating.