So if the Baratheon super genes overcome all others why aren’t Rhaenys, Laenor, Laena, and the grandkids all black haired and blue eyes? I find it hard to believe silver-purple phenotype is that different from blonde-green. The added incest can’t be used to explain it away since all of Robert’s bastards look like him no matter their mother. Any thoughts?

On a Doylist level, I think it’s GRRM being inconsistent. Sometimes Targaryen features seem to be recessive – as with Rhaenrya’s kids with Harwin Strong – and sometimes they seem less so. Baelor Breakspear and his children resembled Baelor’s Martell mother, but his brothers all had the Targaryen look; on the other hand, the Martells kept their look after Daenerys, the Baratheons kept their look after Rhaelle, and so forth. (Incidentally, in the text, only the Baratheon hair color is noted as being dominant, not the eyes.)

On a Watsonian level, I think Rhaenys got her coloration from her mother Jocelyn Baratheon’s Velaryon mother, which either skipped Boremund Baratheon or Boremund didn’t pass down to Borros, or Borros didn’t pass down to whoever followed him, since as far as I know he only had daughters. (Which, incidentally is a pretty major gap in our understanding of the Baratheon family tree…)

Hi, new reader here, your website is a godsend! Do you think the first and third estate (especially bourgeoisie) seem a little underdeveloped for plot or simplicity purposes? We don’t really see any “guilds” beyond the antler men and you’d think Dorne would have build some cities on the Greenblood since they don’t have fertile land (a la Egypt or Persia), right? Plus does the history of the faith make any sense at all? A highly centralized religion that develops its lead figure in just one realm

out of the blue? There doesn’t seem to be any organizational history in Essos (or crusade like endeavors for that matter) and some how none of the other kingdoms build up their own puppet religious head or organization. Wouldn’t it make more sense for them to each have a religious head competing for primacy, with unification occurring only under the Targaryens?

Hi, glad you like it!

As for the first estate, the organizational theory is not the part that I find odd. The Seven was the religion of the (at the time nomadic) Andals who underwent a mass migration under pressure from Valyrian expansion, so they wouldn’t leave behind any organizational structure, but they did when they put down roots. The part I do find odd is only partly the centralization, it’s more where the centralization happened – why down in the Reach in Oldtown and not in the Vale, where the Faith had been longest, or the Riverlands where there was the most religious conflict? And I do think there would have been some competition for prestige between the different kingdoms.

As for the third, I don’t think you’re right. We’ve got the guild of smiths in King’s Landing, and if they’re organized it’s likely that the other trades are – we know there’s a merchant’s guild in King’s Landing that Cersei deals with and we know there are multiple guildhalls in the city, we have the Guild of Alchemists in King’s Landing, Oldtown has an entire district where “west of the Honeywine, the Guildhalls lined the bank like a row of palaces,” there’s the Guild of Spicers in Qarth, the Ghiscari freeborn are guilded up the wazoo, the Braavosi have guilds and guildhalls, etc.

While I can see what you’re trying to do on the Westros side (I think it’s a stretch), how are you arriving at the conclusion that essos is in the renaissance? I think you said that once. If not, my back up comment is about the importance of old nan in the generations of stark children.

Well, you might want to read this series I wrote on the different city-states of Essos. But the short version is: the Free Cities are (mostly) republican city-states rather than monarchies or feudal aristocracies, their economies are based on finance, commerce, and advanced manufacturing rather than subsistence farming; in terms of technology, Myr is producing lenses, telescopes, and advanced crossbows; Braavos uses the assembly line and interchangeable parts in the manufacture of ships and uses double-entry bookkeeping in its finance; Qohor has advanced metallurgy. Culturally, Braavos has Elizabethan theater for crying out loud!

What do you think of the theory that Joffrey, Tommen and Myrcella really are Robert’s children, but due to the medieval misunderstanding of genetics and general Stannis/Jon Arryn/Ned distrust of Lannisters they all jump the gun and believe they’re Jaime’s kids? Does that sound like an ironic twist that GRRM would do?

I think that theory is as wrong as it is possible to be.

Cersei is quite explicit about this:

Ned said. “How is it that you have had no children by the king?”

She lifted her head, defiant. “Your Robert got me with child once,” she said, her voice thick with contempt. “My brother found a woman to cleanse me. He never knew. If truth be told, I can scarcely bear for him to touch me, and I have not let him inside me for years. I know other ways to pleasure him, when he leaves his whores long enough to stagger up to my bedchamber. Whatever we do, the king is usually so drunk that he’s forgotten it all by the next morning.”

…Ten thousand of your children perished in my palm, Your Grace, she thought, slipping a third finger into Myr. Whilst you snored, I would lick your sons off my face and fingers one by one, all those pale sticky princes. You claimed your rights, my lord, but in the darkness I would eat your heirs.

Cersei avoided having sex with Robert, when she had to she would do so in “other ways” that would not result in children, and when that failed she would have an abortion. There was no black-haired baby, Gendry is not her baby, none of those theories made any political sense whatsoever.

And while we’re at it, while GRRM is not a geneticist, the fact that each and every one of Robert’s bastards – Barra, Bella, Gendry, Mya, etc. – have black hair regardless of the hair color of the mother is meant to be a sign that Robert Baratheon was homozygous for black hair.

So to those who would propound this theory, I would say:

Chapter-by-Chapter Analysis: Tyrion I, ASOS

“While Tyrion lay drugged and dreaming, his own blood had pulled his claws out, one-by-one.”
Synopsis: All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.
SPOILER WARNING: This chapter analysis, and all following, will contain spoilers for all Song of Ice and Fire novels and Game of Thrones episodes. Caveat lector.
(more…)

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How skilled of a fighter was Ser Duncan the Tall? How much did his lack of formal training affect his abilities?

Initially, Ser Duncan was only so-so, as basically a half-trained kid whose size gave him reach and weight but not much accuracy. And through the events of Hedge Knight, Sworn Sword, and Mystery Knight, he’s definitely learning through the school of hard knocks, although he seems to be much better with the sword than with the lance as of Mystery Knight.

But we know from the WOIAF and the TV show that Dunk got much better at both with time:

“King Aegon V himself rode out to meet them, with his three sons by his side. In the Battle of Wendwater Bridge, the Blackfyres suffered a shattering defeat, and Daemon III was slain by the Kingsguard knight Ser Duncan the Tall, the hedge knight for whom “Egg” had served as a squire…Peace was restored only after the Kingsguard knight Ser Duncan the Tall faced Lord Lyonel in a trial by battle…Ser Duncan of the Kingsguard defeated Lord Lyonel in single combat.”

“…Raised to Lord Commander of the Kingsguard by King Aegon V, his former squire. Led the honor guard that escorted Maester Aemon, formerly of House Targaryen and the Kings uncle, to the Wall. Defeated all challengers at the tourney of Pennytree, which Aegon V held in his honor and named a commoner as the Queen of Love and Beauty. Rescued the daughter of Lord Damon Lannister from Pyke, after her ship was taken by Greyjoy raiders…”

We also know that Dunk was defeated at a tourney by a 16-year old Barristan Selmy, so if you have to get beat, get beat by the best.

Maester Steve, Are dowries standard practice in Westeros and if so are they a only a custom of the nobility, knights, merchants and other rich folk? If so what would be a proper dowry for a marriage of Lords Paramount, great lords, lesser/petty lords and landed knights? IRL, say England in high middle ages, what would be an appropriate dowry for a Lord’s marriage? For example, I know Margaret of Anjou was vilified for bringing near nothing when she married Henry 6. Love the blog!

Thanks!

How standard dowries are in Westeros is unclear – in ASOIAF, we only have the case of Fat Walda and Roose, Lyonel Corbray and the merchant’s daughter, Myranda Royce’s potential engagement to Harry the Heir, and in WOIAF we only have Argilac Durrandon’s offer to Aegon, and Aegon IV’s payment to the Archon of Tyrosh. They seem to be used in cases where a match is being made that one party wants more than the other, and the first party is sweetening the deal to get the other side to sign on, or as a match between unequals (House Bolton being older, formerly royal, and somewhat more powerful than House Frey, Corbray marrying “into trade,” Myranda being already married and only recently belonging to a house with its own fiefdom).

If Westeros is anything like medieval Europe, however, they’re not just for the nobility. In a world where there isn’t a free market in land, marriages are how peasants can try to access economic security and social mobility, by merging neighboring farms into larger farms so that you can take advantage of economies of scale. Thus, poor peasants become middling peasants, and middling peasants can become rich peasants, and rich peasants become merchants.

A standard dowry would obviously vary by rank, but it would usually take the form of a regular yearly income or a one-time store of treasure if one’s family was flush with cash, or in the form of land if one’s family had huge tracts of…you get the idea.

Imagine I’m a minor feudal lord (RL or Westeros, either works really). I’m male, in good health and in my 20s-40s). My liege goes to war and calls the banners. I show up with my levies but say: “Yeah, I’m just terrible with a sword. I’ll gladly help where I can, but I’m not riding onto the battlefield myself. Sorry.” How am I treated and what are the consequences for my reputation? And would that have varied throughout geography and time?

Well, let’s start with in real life. Especially in the early Middle Ages, you would be widely seen as unmanly and not really living up to your obligations, especially if you were that blunt about it instead of saying instead that you couldn’t be there personally because you needed to guard against border raiders or to deal with bandits or you were ill or something. But by the 12th century, when the institution of scutage was developed, you’d just be paying your taxes as a good subject ought, so the social consequences change enormously over time.

In Westeros,look at how people think about Walder Frey as a coward and disloyal, etc. Unless there was some extenuating reason – no one else to look after the holdfast, for example – you would face a pretty sharp loss of face.

However, attitudes are different depending on other social norms. If you are a younger son like Leobald Tallhart, as long as your older brother is representing the family on the field and you’re needed to look after Torrhen’s Square, you’re not going to be treated the same way. If you’re the heir and your father is still of age, you might be left behind like Benfred Tallhart as opposed to being taken along like all of the Karstark lads, although Benfred forming the Wild Hares shows a certain impatience and a lesser but extant degree of social pressure.

Dear maester Steven, you’ve mentioned at times in the past that the only part of Westeros’ central government that seems out-of-date for the Late Middle Ages is the Judiciary, and to rectify this you suggested the creation of royal courts similar to the ones that Henry UK built. However, if a King of Westeros did intend to do this how many courts do you think should be built for the entire realm?

Well, let’s take Henry II’s judicial reforms as a jumping-off point: he’s perhaps best known for the Assizes of Clarendon (which in addition to asserting exclusive royal jurisdiction over criminal cases and royal jurisdiction over land disputes, also created some of the first grand juries) where he established the justices in eyre – six judges from Westminster who divided England between them and would travel in a circuit from county to county, covering their entire circuit every two years. He also established permanent judiciaries in the capitol which would eventually be known as the Court of Common Pleas and the Court of King’s Bench.And this was pretty much how things went from about 1166 to 1285-1360, where the system of local justices of the peace began to replace the justices in eyre in terms of who does the majority of judicial work.

So if we were talking about providing a judiciary for Westeros, I think you’d probably start with a system of itinerant justices who could cover a good deal of territory between them, and you’d probably stagger the numbers by the size of the territory involved: Iron Islands are pretty small geographically so you could get away with one, Stormlands and Crownlands could probably be covered by two justices each, Westerlands and Vale maybe three or four each given the difficulty of mountain travel, the North and Dorne would probably need 5-6 given the long distances but also the lower population density, and the Reach would probably need 10 or more given the size and high population.

So I don’t know if you subscribe to this theory, but if Rhaegar were funding the Harrenhal tourney, how would he do it? How rich do you think the Crown Prince would be? I can’t really see Dragonstone (even if he controls its lands and incomes) being a richer fief than Harrenhal, so do you think it is possible he loaned against his future income as King?

Well, Dragonstone isn’t richer than Harrenhal, but it’s pretty rich. Likewise, Rhaegar could probably call upon other income streams: even with Aerys’ paranoia and Tywin’s frugality, a crown prince is going to get an income to keep them in sufficient splendor so as to add luster to the royal court (as opposed to being an embarrassment). Likewise, it’s possible that Elia came with a dowry or had incomes of her own that Rhaegar could call upon. And yes, Rhaegar might have borrowed based on his future incomes, it was a quite common trap that a lot of heirs found themselves falling into.

But overall, the very fact that the theory was bruited at the time suggests its plausibility – if it was evident on its face that there’s no way Rhaegar could possibly have afforded to finance the tournament, no one would have believed the rumor and it wouldn’t be given credence in the text.

And finally, Rhaegar doesn’t necessarily have to pay for the whole thing himself – he only would have had to pay for enough of the cost to make the rest affordable for the Lord of Harrenhal.