Re: medieval war length (different anon): Weren’t wars like the Wars of the Roses and the Hundred Years’ War sort of off-again on-again affairs with a decade or two of peace between each conflict flaring up? So with Aegon and Dany getting involved in the Wot5K couldn’t some future historians label the whole 283-300 period one long ‘War of the Stag’ or whatever?

That’s true, but the lengths of the conficts within were still longer than most GRRMatical wars and the peaces were often quite briefer than a decade. 

With the Wars of the Roses, you have 1455-1458 (depending on whether you count Nevillle/Percy fighting as part of the whole, which you should), then 1459-1462, then 1464-5, then 1469-1471, then a gap until 1483, then 1485. So that’s 4 years, 4 years, 2 years, 3 years, 1 year, and 1 year respectively, so the average is much higher than in Westeros. 

With the Hundred Years War (taking just the Edwardian period because I don’t want this to go crazy) you have fighting in 1338-1340, 1341-1345 (despite a truce technically being in effect from ‘43-45), then 1346-1347, then 1355-1358, then 1359-1360. So that’s 3 years, 5 years, then 2 years, 4 years, and 2 years, again a much higher average. 

How well do westerosi/medieval lords understand/do lobbying?

Great question!

The answer is they do it quite a bit. Except during those rare times in which the Great Council is in session, there are no legislative politics per se – governments take action through the decrees and decisions of the king and his ministers, so if you want anything from the government, you have to do it through lobbying. 

And we have a lot of examples of this in the series, leaving aside the omnipresent chivvying for lands and titles:

…the septa could not have known that today’s court would be anything but the usual tedious business of hearing petitions, settling disputes between rival holdfasts, and adjudicating the placement of boundary stones. (Eddard XI, AGOT)

Lord Redwyne asked only for thirty years’ remission of the taxes that Littlefinger and his wine factors had levied on certain of the Arbor’s finest vintages. When that was granted, he pronounced himself well satisfied and suggested that they send for a cask of Arbor gold, to toast good King Joffrey and his wise and benevolent Hand. (Tyrion III, ASOS)

Jalabhar Xho was the first to petition her that day, as befit his rank as a prince in exile. Splendid as he looked in his bright feathered cloak, he had only come to beg. Cersei let him make his usual plea for men and arms to help him regain Red Flower Vale…Lord Hallyne of the Guild of Alchemists presented himself, to ask that his pyromancers be allowed to hatch any dragon’s eggs that might turn up upon Dragonstone, now that the isle was safely back in royal hands…(Cersei VIII, AFFC)

Indeed, one could argue that courtiers are essentially lobbyists with better fashion sense. 

Got a question for you Steven. In a previous ask you agreed that the length of wars under the Targaryens is implausible. My question then is what would be a more realistic timespan for the Conquest, Dance of the Dragons, First Blackfyre Rebellion, Robert’s Rebellion, and the War of the Five Kings? Thanks.

Hoo boy, that’s kind of a can of worms I’m not sure you want to open, because it’ll play merry hell with the timeline. 

See, all of GRRM’s wars are very short: the Conquest was one year, the Dance was three, First Blackfyre was one, Ninepenny Kings was one, Robert’s Rebellion was one year but across two, Greyjoy Rebellion was one, and the War of Five Kings is three and counting.

But to give a few examples from medieval warfare:  

  • FIrst Crusade (4 years)
  • Second Crusade (3 years)
  • Third Crusade (5 years)
  • First War of Scottish Independence (32 years)
  • Hundred Years’ War (115 years)
  • Wars of the Roses (30 years)

And that’s just a handful of cases, you can find many many more

So GRRM’s longest wars are Medieval history’s shorter wars. 

Chapter-by-Chapter Analysis: Arya III, ASOS

Chapter-by-Chapter Analysis: Arya III, ASOS

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“I could have stayed with Hot Pie. We could have taken the little boat and sailed it up to Riverrun. She had been better off as Squab. No one would take Squab captive, or Nan, or Weasel, or Arry the orphan boy. I was a wolf, she thought, but now I’m just some stupid little lady again.” Synopsis: Arya has two conversations with Harwin, one more honest than the other. SPOILER WARNING: This chapter…

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Anon Asks:

How much land would huge cities like Rome or Constantinople or Athens or the free cities in ASOIAF need to feed the population of just that urban city?

Great question! The answer is: large cities in any period of history, be it during classical antiquity, the Middle Ages, the Renaissance, well into the Industrial Revolution, require a very large hinterland to provide the necessary food to feed their populations. 

On a general rule of thumb, you’d generally expect cities of those size to command the resources of the countryside around them for at least several day’s travel distance from the city (basically, as far back as you can reasonably get goods to market before they go bad).

However, all of the cities you mention are port cities, which changes the story somewhat: Rome drew its food supply not just from Italy but also from western North Africa etc., Constantinople drew its food supply both from nearby Anatolia and Thrace but also from Egypt, and the Free Cities can draw their food both from their hinterlands but also from Westeros or other parts of Essos. 

What did the scutage based late medieval armies do in peace time? How did they differ in peace time then wartime, like did the monarch keep less troops on hand to real extra wealth and then just hire more men during a war or keep full time large armies all the time?

Quite right. Scutage was supposed to be a sometimes food, and abusing scutage by both raising the rates and imposing it in peace-time was a direct cause of the First Baron’s War and the creation of the Magna Carta.

And while we’re on the topic, let me answer this ask from @kuvirametalbender:

warsofasoiaf:

Tagging @racefortheironthrone on this in case I missed something, to add something, or just to dunk all over this question because this is something he understands very well.

Scutage itself evolved in the High Middle Ages where kings would levy the tax in lieu of feudal service, so during peace time, the military wasn’t much different from the levy model, in peace time the scutage wouldn’t be collected any more than the levies would be called. King Richard I would exercise a royal prerogative, deciding whether a tenant would be liable for levies or for the scutage. However, increasingly, the scutage became levied in peacetime, King John the Softsword often levied a two-mark scutage every year, this was one of the big bones of contention with him that led to the First Baron’s War when he levied an unprecedented three-mark scutage in 1214. The Magna Carta forbade scutage save by “the common counsel,” which was the Great Council, a council of barons, bishops, earls, essentially the tenants-in-chief which gradually evolved into the Parliament of England. In 1217, Henry III would often levy the scutage but usually after formal buy-in from the barons. This method of taxation lasted until the early 13th century, when royal taxation became more standardized and better enforced under King Edward II.

Typically in the time period, kings and nobles would have a small retainer who would be in their direct employ, men that they paid to help keep the peace, enforce edicts. This was an obligation, hence why the knight’s fee was the actual level of income needed to provide equipment for the retinue to fulfill the feudal obligation of military service. Depending on the king in question, they would often mandate a certain level of military readiness among the population, such as equipment and drill days, which were enforced to varying degrees of success and set by property holdings and wealth. Key to this was the yeoman class, who ranked below knights, squires, and other landed gentry but above pages. Yeoman, a distinct medieval middle class, were professional or semi-professional warriors often serving as bailiffs and constables, as well as the franklins, who were freemen and often served as aldermen or mayors, and usually required by different royal edicts to maintain a certain degree of equipment. As such, there was a very distinct hierarchy of class that factored into military readiness. The first full-time professional army in the medieval era in western Europe is typically identified as being in France, the army of King Charles VII of France, in 1445.

Thanks for the question, Anon.

SomethingLikeALawyer, Hand of the King

Once scutage was more commonly practiced, what did Nobles did with their time, not having to go to wars? Also in the case of an invasion, of a noble’s land was the King expected to use the tax money collected from other nobles to defend the area under attack? Are nobels not expected to raise their own banners anymore since they’re paying a military tax?

Well, some nobles still went to war – after all, war was still for the elite a way to gain royal favor, land, money, and fame, whereas scutage was primarily useful for small landholders who couldn’t afford the costs of campaigns (and who would be unlikely to gain royal attention and favor in battle, given their lowly standing) – but it was now more at their discretion.

But in the most part, the nobility occupied their time by managing their estates, entertaining themselves, socializing and gossiping, or engaging in local, regional, and national politics, just as they had always done.

Finally, yes, the king was supposed to defend any part of their kingdoms from invasion – it’s not really the case that they would refrain from doing so because someone hadn’t paid their taxes because it was still a huge loss of prestige and invasions are rarely that discrete.  

My recollection is that Martin lamented the lack of noble titles he initially used in Westeros: virtually everybody’s a lord. If Martin charged you with going back and diversifying the titles of existing characters, how would you go about that ask?

(Throwing two title related questions together for avoidance of repetition.)

I wasn’t able to find GRRM lamenting that – indeed, I think he finds the simplicity of the titles one less thing he has to worry about, like the gender of horses and the width of hips. 

But if we were going to start over from scratch, I think I would avoid copying historical systems too closely – baron, count, duke, earl, etc. all have specific cultural meanings that don’t necessarily work in Westerosi contexts.

Rather, I think I’d like to build on existing Westerosi terms and just use them more systematically – so no referring to Ned Stark as “Lord of Winterfell” or “Lord Stark” but rather “Lord Paramount” or “my lord paramount” being the correct form of address – so you’d have Lords Paramount, Lords Principal, Lords Ordinary, and then landed knights and masterly houses (which I would also clear up a bit – if the title of “master” is going to be a recognizably northern thing, there should probably be more than two examples in the series, and I feel like they could have sprinkled in some more masters among the ranks of Robb’s bannermen). 

What is the correct use of the honorific “my lord”? We see it used as a general term to refer to anyone socially superior, used uncontroversially to refer to Tyrion and Jaime, but apparently controversial when applied to Edmure before Hoster’s death. What is the correct usage?

The controversy shouldn’t be over Edmure being called “my lord” – that is right and proper as befitting the heir and immiment next Lord Paramount of the Riverlands – but over him being referred to as “Lord Edmure” before the death of Hoster Tully in ASOS.

As you say, “my lord” is used to refer to social superiors as a matter of courtesy, but it’s not a title with legal rights and privileges in the same way that “Lord” is. 

Politics of the Seven Kingdoms: The Stormlands (Part II)

Politics of the Seven Kingdoms: The Stormlands (Part II)

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credit to ser other-in-law The Andals in the Stormlands Earlier, I discussed some of my frustration with the historical sections of the Stormlands chapter. In this section, we get to some of my biggest pet peeves with this section of the WOIAF – namely, that its account of the Andal Invasion of the Stormlands doesn’t really pass muster, especially when viewed in comparison to the other Seven…

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Chapter-by-Chapter Analysis: Sansa II, ASOS

Chapter-by-Chapter Analysis: Sansa II, ASOS

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She would wear her new gown for the ceremony at the Great Sept of Baelor…that must be why Cersei is having it made for me, so I will not look shabby at the wedding. Synopsis: Sansa gets a new dress, goes hawking with Margaery, and has a conversation with Ser Dontos. SPOILER WARNING: This chapter analysis, and all following, will contain spoilers for all Song of Ice and Fire novels and Game of…

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