How would you stat the other POV characters in ASOIAF in roleplaying classes?

racefortheironthrone:

Let’s see:

Jon’s clearly a Beastmaster Ranger.

Arya’s a Homebrew variant of Assassin Rogue.

I feel like Tyrion is a Charisma/Int Mastermind Rogue.

Sam’s a Bard who might be mutliclassing into Wizard if Marwyn’s accepting students.

Cersei, Catelyn, Sansa are Aristocrats from 3.X I guess?

Arianne might be a Bard from the College of Whispers, or maybe a Charisma/Int Mastermind Rogue, but she’s underleveled.

Asha is a Swashbuckler Rogue with Sailor Background.

Jaime is a Fighter who’s having to respec from Battlemaster into a more Warlord style.

Barristan Selmy is a Paladin.

Aerys Oakheart is a Paladin who broke his Oath.

Areo Hotah is a Protection Greataxe Battlemaster Fighter.

Aeron Damphair thinks he’s a Cleric, but he’s actually a Prophet Priest Kit from AD&D 2nd edition whose Wisdom is too low to cast spells.

Victarion is a Champion Fighter with a Sailor Background who super min-maxed for combat, so Wis, Int, and Cha are all dump-stats.

Missed a few, b/c there are a lot of POV characters:

Ned Stark is a Fighter/Aristocrat.
Davos is a Thief Rogue with a Sailor Background.
Brienne of Tarth is a Battlemaster Fighter verging on Paladin.
Theon Greyjoy is a Dex-Based Archery Fighter who thinks he has a Sailor Background but really has a Noble Background, also thinks he has higher Cha or Int than he really does.

How would you stat the other POV characters in ASOIAF in roleplaying classes?

Let’s see:

Jon’s clearly a Beastmaster Ranger.
Arya’s a Homebrew variant of Assassin Rogue.
I feel like Tyrion is a Charisma/Int Mastermind Rogue.
Sam’s a Bard who might be mutliclassing into Wizard if Marwyn’s accepting students.
Cersei, Catelyn, Sansa are Aristocrats from 3.X I guess?
Arianne might be a Bard from the College of Whispers, or maybe a Charisma/Int Mastermind Rogue, but she’s underleveled.
Asha is a Swashbuckler Rogue with Sailor Background.
Jaime is a Fighter who’s having to respec from Battlemaster into a more Warlord style.
Barristan Selmy is a Paladin.
Aerys Oakheart is a Paladin who broke his Oath.
Areo Hotah is a Protection Greataxe Battlemaster Fighter.
Aeron Damphair thinks he’s a Cleric, but he’s actually a Prophet Priest Kit from AD&D 2nd edition whose Wisdom is too low to cast spells.
Victarion is a Champion Fighter with a Sailor Background who super min-maxed for combat, so Wis, Int, and Cha are all dump-stats.

How could you make Westeros more democratic, or meritocratic, without pushing the nobility into rebellion? Give more power to Guilds maybe, let cities and their urban classes become more wealthy/powerful?

Well, democratic and meritocratic are not the same things; got to be careful when thinking about virtues and political systems, because a lot of people from 18th century liberals to the present day fox themselves by blurring those categories.

So I’m torn between my Team Smallfolk side and my historian’s side. My Team Smallfolk side says we go full Wat Tyler, let the nobility rebel, and then crush them like we’re Flemish artisans. My historian’s side says that revolutions can go backwards and that change is often gradual and long-term (but also that it often goes in a process of “punctuated equilibrium” where you have to push as far as you can in the moment, but always being careful that you push for what’s sustainable).

I would say that you build on existing institutions:

First, institutionalize the Great Councils of Westeros, as a quasi-representative body that embodies an alternative principle of legitimacy beyond the right of blood or conquest, and which seems to operate under the principle of all lords being equal (that’s something you can build off of. (Likewise the Kingsmoot, the elections of the Night’s Watch, etc.) Eventually, build the Great Councils into something akin at least to the Tudor Parliament if not yet at the level of the Parliament of the 17th century.
Second, extend the tradition of “any knight can make a knight” and the quasi-revolutionary nature of the knight’s oath. On a cultural level, encourage storytelling about Ser Duncan the Tall and other knights who expressed their virtues by defying their superiors rather than obeying them. Expand the class of knighthood down into the elite of urban society by making guild masters, burghers, etc. knights. This should create a class of people who have something to lose from the old order coming back, who can mobilize other people to fight counter-revolution. Eventually, give all knights representation on the Great Councils – although the principle of “one lord, one vote” might have to shift to something more elective, because getting everyone in one room is hard enough already.
Third, restore the reforms of Aegon V, whatever they may be. Really work on enforcement, so that the law is uniform whether it’s under the king’s eye in the Crownlands or out in Dorne or in the far North or out in the Westerlands. Work to extend royal justice vis-a-vis the right of pit and gallows, perhaps compromising with the local lords by letting them recommend candidates for justiceships. Eventually, work to expand the idea that individuals and communities have inalienable rights – perhaps building off of the ideology of the Seven that we’re all children of the Gods, etc.

a question about the westerlands army numbers. i know the common sensus seems to be around 50-55000 men in regards to how many the westerlands can raise. this is based on how many fought in the war of the five kings. but wasnt a large portion of tywins army composed of mercenaries in addition to his levies?

Not really. The only mercenaries we see serving Tywin are the Bloody Mummers, who only number a hundred altogether, and that Tyroshi band who abandoned Jaime’s army at the Camps and promptly vanished.

I have some theories about why, but there’s no evidence on this.

In ADwD one of the Northern Clanlords mention that Winterfell used to ask for hostagewards from the hill clans, & those whose fathers went against the Kings of Winter would be sent back minus head. Given that the hill clans seem to be steadfastly loyal, what kind of events would necessitate something as drastic as execution of the wards?

Probably internal warfare and the breaking of peaces:

“These clans—located largely in the mountainous regions beyond the wolfswood, in the high valleys and meadows, and along the Bay of Ice and certain rivers of the North—owe their allegiance to the Starks, but their disputes have oft created difficulties for the Lords of Winterfell and the Kings of Winter before them, forcing them to send men into the mountains to quell the bloodshed (commemorated in such songs as “Black Pines” and “Wolves in the Hills”), or to summon the chiefs to Winterfell to argue their cases.” (WOIAF)

I would guess what happened is that the Starks took hostages when they sent men into the mountains to prevent a further outbreak of violence, and then someone was dumb enough to break the peace, and to prevent another war and another intervention from Winterfell, a Stark cut off some heads to show that they would enforce the peace personally if they had to.

So it’s not about disloyalty to the Starks, it’s more about the folkways of feuding and vendetta.

It’s very hard to convince people that the mission beyond the Wall+the grand parley next week from the show won’t happen in the book. Do you think it’s likely these may happen in the books?

opinions-about-tiaras:

racefortheironthrone:

A mission beyond the Wall? Yes. Jon and co are bound for the Heart of Winter, so I see that happening.

This mission? No. The books already established that wights who go south of the Wall stop being reanimated and rot away. The show dropped that little plotline, but it’s there in the books.

Wait, hold on. Do we know this? Like, for sure?

The only instance I can think of is when Ser Alliser tried to take that hand down to King’s Landing and it rotted away. And that’s hardly dispositive; the hand was severed from the rest of the wight. It might be that if they’d contained an <em>entire</em> wight the re-animation magic would continue to work just fine. Or it might be that the Wall doesn’t mean anything, but that the wights, being dead flesh, will putrefy and rot and wither away anywhere that it is naturally above freezing.

Or is there another instance of us being told wights don’t work south of the wall I missed?

See here.

Wait, I’m confused, I thought in the books the very first wight Jon saw WAS past the wall at the time it resurrected and tried to kill Mormont? Jon also tried to see if he could get another wight while locking corpses in the cells during Dance. Wouldn’t that disprove that it’s the Wall stopping them from reanimating once they go south of it and that some other factor contributed to the hand Ser Alliser brought to King’s Landing rotting away?

It was past the Wall, so there’s clearly some overlap. But the animated hand sent with Alliser stopped moving and rotted, so whether it’s a field effect or a recency effect or what have you, at some point, the magic fades.

And we know it’s the Wall doing this because:

“Why didn’t he come with you?” Meera gestured toward Gilly and her babe. “They came with you, why not him? Why didn’t you bring him through this Black Gate too?”
“He … he can’t.”
“Why not?”
“The Wall. The Wall is more than just ice and stone, he said. There are spells woven into it … old ones, and strong. He cannot pass beyond the Wall.”

“You are wrong. I have dreamed of your Wall, Jon Snow. Great was the lore that raised it, and great the spells locked beneath its ice. We walk beneath one of the hinges of the world.” Melisandre gazed up at it, her breath a warm moist cloud in the air. “This is my place as it is yours, and soon enough you may have grave need of me. Do not refuse my friendship, Jon. I have seen you in the storm, hard-pressed, with enemies on every side. You have so many enemies. Shall I tell you their names?”

“The books already established that wights who go south of the Wall stop being reanimated and rot away” how are they going to attack south of the Wall, then? Their army will decrease in numbers and they won’t be able to reanimate dead people to join them, is that it?

The wights rot because the magic of the White Walkers is stopped at the Wall (with some overlap, see the Lord Commander’s Tower). If the Wall isn’t there…

It’s weird that Aegon II is considered the victor of the Dance of Dragons (e.g. he’s listed as the 6th king, Stannis considers Rhaenyra a traitor, and it reinforces the idea that the Iron Throne can never go to a woman) when (1) Rhaenyra’s army won and (2) the succession actually ended up going through Rhaenyra, and not at all through Aegon II.

In the heat of debate over Rhaenrya, people keep forgetting that Aegon III was the son of Daemon Targaryen, younger brother of Viserys I, uncle of Aegon II, and son of Baelon Targaryen the chosen line of descent by the Great Council of 101. Since Aegon’s sons were dead by the end of the Dance, under the legal precedent that he himself had based his claim to the throne on, his rightful heir became the eldest surviving son of his brother (yes, Daemon died at the Godseye, but the principle that the heir of the heir inherits had also been established at 101).

It was a lucky accident that the Dance ended in such a way that both sides could think they had won: the blacks could be happy that Aegon II was dead and that Aegon III was king, but the greens could console themselves that the legal principle of Salic Law from the Great Council had been upheld. After all, if the Dance had established that women could inherit, Aegon II had a daughter left alive (who was carefully betrothed to Aegon III to prevent that sort of thing causing trouble), and Daemon had two daughters who were older than Aegon III. (While we’re at it, it is interesting that GRRM has the Dance wipe out all three of the “strong” Velaryon boys so that Aegon would be the one to inherit)

At the end of the day, then, I think it calls into question how much those victorious armies were Rhaenrya’s, if they were so cheerfully willing to strike her name from the roll of monarchs (which was probably all to their advantage, given how hated Rhaenrya was after her brutal occupation of King’s Landing led to the storming of the Dragonpit) and abandon the cause she had given her life for, or whether by that point they were fighting for vengeance and to overthrow the green faction and replace them in the halls of power.

how much more usefull would being made of valyrian steel make axes, hammers, spears and halberds?

The main thing that makes Valyrian steel better is that it’s lighter, stronger, and sharper than ordinary steel. So it’s going to be better with weapons that take advantage of those properties:

Axes: the sharper part will certainly help the axe improve its ability to cut into things, and the stronger part will prevent the axe-head from breaking but that’s pretty rare. The lightness thing doesn’t help – axes want weight behind them so that all that momentum gets channeled by the wedge of the blade to a point.
Hammers: Same thing that goes for axes wrt to lightness goes doubly for hammers. The less a hammer weighs, the less impact it has. However, the sharper part will help with the pick end of the warhammer. Overall, not really a good idea.
Spear: Think of a spear as a sword blade on a stick and you begin to see why a Valyrian spearhead would be very handy – lighter spears make it easier to fight longer or to throw the spear, sharper spears make it easier to puncture shields and armor, harder spears won’t break or bend when they hit something. Now, as with the axe, there is an issue that doesn’t crop up with swords: spears and axes are on wooden hafts, which can break or be cut through and then you’re screwed. However, if you have enough metal for a Valyrian steel shaft, then you’ve got something really special.
Halberd: as discussed before, a halberd is basically a Swiss army knife of polearms – it’s an axe, a spear, and a hook. Valyrian steel aids in 2/3 of those, so it’s not a terrible idea. However, it also has the same haft issue but more so because it’s a polearm and has a longer haft.