The only way I think Robert could top that if he was somehow also fighting off an assassin while trying to swallow a mouthful of roast boar and wine at the same time.
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Knowing how much you enjoy the King/Hand relationships, any theories on who Aegon V’s hand(s) may have been or why he’s the only king without mentioned Hand’s after the World Book (other than Viserys II)? I’d guess that he’d have some pretty weak ones if he was trying to push through all his radical reforms. Also curious about his Kingsguard, of whom we know none of other than Dunk. Thinking the two of them could have put together a pretty impressive line up of 7.
That’s an excellent point! I don’t know why Aegon V’s Hand/s was/were unknown. It’s possible that as an activist King, he wasn’t looking for a powerful Hand with their own agenda, but more of a Kevan Lannister type who would oversee implementation without questioning policy. It’s also possible that, given his weak standing within the nobility, he didn’t have a Hand of note. It’s also possible that GRRM doesn’t want to tell us because we’re going to meet Aegon V’s Hand in one of the Dunk & Egg stories and he doesn’t want to spoil the surprise.
As for the Kingsguard, I’m guessing Gerold Hightower joined during his reign, as Gerold was an old man by the time of Aerys II and was probably a veteran Kingsguarder when Jaehaerys II made him Lord Commander after Dunk’s death.
And it’s possible that some of Daeron II/Aerys I’s men were still around – we know Roland Crakehall survived the melee at Ashford, and possibly Ser Donnel of Duskendale did as well; Willem Wylde is less likely to have lived.
Anon from before. Thank you for answering my question (so quickly at that!). I’m personally fascinated by the genealogy of Martin’s Westeros — how these individuals/families are tied together by ambition, circumstance, & more; how relationships b/w men are fundamentally (w/ historical RL basis) cemented by a sexist exchange of women; how these women can affect the alliances themselves; and how these relationships impact the larger landscape — so I appreciate you taking the time to answer. :)
No problem. It’s a fascinating topic – one of the things that really does make the pre-WWI period different from the political systems that follow is the way in which monarchy and aristocracy commingle the personal and the political, private and public.
If anything, Martin downplays it a bit by having the Great Houses rarely marry each other. In our medieval era, all of these warring kings and dukes and earls and barons and counts are relatives, which adds this interesting personal dynamic to political intrigue and warfare.
In WOIAF, it mentions the need for a “Heir and a spare”? What typically happens to the spare, and the spare’s children (assuming that the heir has son(s) of his own)? I.e. what would have happened to Tommen and his kids if Joffrey lived a long life and fathered sons with Sansa? Or to Viserys if the Targaryens stay in power and Rhaegar/Aegon live? Unless the second son marries a Dornish princess, they won’t really get any land from their marriage, no?
Well, a spare usually gets a lesser title and some lands. For example, Viserys was Prince of Summerhall, and Tommen would have probably gotten that too. And recent practice shows the spare often gets government office too – Daemon Targaryen as Lord Commander of the City Watch, Stannis and Renly on the Small Council, etc.
And they’re useful in times of war as guaranteed loyal commanders – look at Maekar and Baelor during the 1st Blackfyre Rebellion, or Maekar, Aerion, and Aegon during the 3rd, or Stannis during Robert’s and the Greyjoy Rebellions.
But mostly they’re there for dynastic alliances (and you can get land from marriage if you marry an heiress with no male relations) and in case the immediate royal family kicks it.
Do you think there’s any possibility that, instead of marrying Margaery as Renly and the Tyrells hoped would happen, Robert doesn’t remarry & legitimizes Edric instead? He’s acknowledged, most likely being given a good education at Storm’s End, & noble on both sides. Robert tells us he didn’t want to marry after Lyanna died, and I doubt the disaster with Cersei will make him up for trying again. This time, though, he has a potential out. He could marry Edric to Marg even given canon Marg/Tommen.
He’d probably legitimate Edric anyway, since he needs a standby heir sharpish. But no, Robert’s into Margaery:
“Have you seen Mace Tyrell’s boy? The Knight of Flowers, they call him. Now there’s a son any man would be proud to own to…Renly says he has this sister, a maid of fourteen, lovely as a dawn…” (Eddard VII, AGOT)
So I think Robert’s reaction to the news about Cersei is, “I knew she was the wrong woman to marry, let me soothe my wounded pride in Margaery Tyrell.” And Margaery would have played it perfectly, praising his virility to the skies, reassuring him that he’s all man and Cersei a freak of nature not to want him. Given his prowess with bastards, I don’t think children would have been a difficulty. The main question is whether Margaery can inspire him to get himself back in shape so he ekes out ten more years, or whether the exertion of a new marriage causes him to die le grand mort, as it were.
I hope you don’t mind engaging in some alt. Westerosi history, but — assuming that Robert lives longer/survives gouging-by-boar or that Tywin/Tyrion manage to establish some measure of peace and stability — how would you go about arranging the marriages of the royal children (Joff, Myrcella, Tommen) to ensure maximum bang for your buck in keeping the throne secure for the “Baratheon” dynasty? (This is also assuming that Cersei is preempted from messing with these dealings.) Thanks!
Well, if Robert lives, Joffrey, Myrcella, and Tommen die. At which point, Margaery needs to start having kids in a hurry – and you’re probably going to have another Regency because there’s no way Robert doesn’t die of some combination of drink, heart failure, or injury sometime soon. Now Margaery’s kids need to marry into some Great Houses soon – Edmure’s kids, Robb’s kids, Harry the Heir’s kids, etc. But you probably also want to get Shireen married to someone important because she’s the only Baratheon child alive, and you want to get Renly lying back and thinking of Westeros long enough to sire some backup heirs.
But if the kids were legit (and in Joffrey’s case, not crazy), the main thing is to renew the Northern Alliance for a new generation, but also expand it – so marrying into the Tyrells is a smart play, they’re too powerful (and their loyalties to the new regime are too weak) to be left outside the fold). Likewise, if you can, you want to keep the Tullys, Starks, and Arryns on-side. So marrying Myrcella to Harry the Heir (b/c Robert Arryn’s not long for this world) makes sense, and Tommen to a younger Stark would also work.
Chapter-by-Chapter Analysis: Tyrion VI, ACOK
Chapter-by-Chapter Analysis: Tyrion VI, ACOK
“Lannister…all I’ve done has been for Lannister…”
Synopsis: Tyrion shares some good news with Cersei, sends a peace offer to Robb, sends men to the Wall, chats with Varys and Littlefinger, and deals with a traitor. Busy day.
SPOILER WARNING: This chapter analysis, and all following, will contain spoilers for all Song of Ice and Fire novels and Game of Thrones episodes. Caveat lector.
Do you think the Isle of Faces will be relevant later on? Are there any theories about it? It seems a very mysterious and historically significant place.
Might be. It’s certainly important to Rhaegar and Lyanna on the one hand and Howland Reed on the other. As a massive stand of weirwood trees and a place where the Old Faith survives in the South, it might have some untapped magical power, certainly.
The question is – which POV? I don’t think it’s going to be Brienne or Jaime or Cersei or Arianne or Jon Connington, that’s not what their plot arcs are about. It’s too much of a detour to be Sansa or Arya or Jon. Bran could visit via tree but I don’t really see why. Maybe Sam, but he’s not particularly close either.
You know, it is weird for their plot arcs, but I sometimes think Jaime and/or Brienne might do something with the Isle of Faces. GRRM has said that magic will become more and more evident in the storyline as time goes on, and the weirwood roots in the BWB’s cave seem significant to me.
Alternatively it could be Sansa, possibly if LF leaves the Vale for Harrenhal and she’s still with him at that point. Or possibly Arya, especially in connection with the Nymeria subplot. But whoever it may be, I am sure the Isle of Faces will be visited by somebody before the series is up.
Well, I’m pretty sure Arya and Sansa both are arcing North, as it were, as the family Stark converges on Winterfell.
Brienne and Jaime maybe, but I have this theory that their fight is going to happen within sight of Riverrun, so that the moment they seem to defeat LSH, they see her Adrian Veidt-like plan come to fruiition.
