Even if the faceless men are more or less akin to a holy order, isn’t what they’re trying to do to Arya still fundamentally evil? It seems like they’re systematically trying to peel away and destroy the various layers of her identity to turn her into a child soldier (with methods like physical abuse, blinding her, gaslighting, etc) and are really just exploiting the fact that she feels she has no other place left where she can have food, shelter, and basic safety from things like rape.

Well, that depends on how you characterize what they’re doing. Is it physical abuse (in which case, is Yoren an abuser? Would Arya see it that way?) or training her to dodge? Is blinding her evil when it’s done to train the senses and the blinding is temporary? Is she being gaslighted or trained in the theology of a mystery cult?

As for the no place left, they’ve said repeatedly that she has everywhere else to go. Arya is the one who’s insisted this is where she wants to be. 

Dothraki part 2

Thanks for the quick turn around on my questions and the insightful comments.

As a follow up to my previous question about a Dothraki invasion, what do you imagine would be the most likely scenario if Khal Drogo had landed after the War of 5 Kings begins? After Blackwater? After Tywin’s death?

I can see why the Dothraki would ultimately fail (lack of popular support, resupply, artillery, siege equipment, etc.) however I would like to learn more about how they would attack Westeros and how they would approach a field battle against Westerosi forces. How would the Dothraki’s mobility and speed match up against the technology and discipline of the Reach/Westerland forces? 

I apologize if I am spamming you. I am a huge fan of your work and am eager to learn more.

The more disorganized and tired Westeros is when the Dothraki land, the better for the Dothraki. So obviously pre-War would go badly for them, post-Tywin’s death would go well. In general, they’d want to avoid a situation where the Reach’s army is in once piece. 

I think the Dothraki would probably engage in mass raids and start by attacking undefended centers where they can loot, then try to use false retreats to take out Westerosi armies in the field. 

In terms of how successful they would be, I think it comes down to two things: first, how they handle geography, and second how they handle the Westerosi army and how the Westerosi armies handle them. On the former, the Dothraki are not used to significant bodies of water or hills or mountains – so the Dothraki are not going to deal well with Dorne or the Westerlands or the Vale, and they’d be in danger of having their numbers massively reduced if they get hit during a river-crossing. 

On the latter: I think the Dothraki would probably enjoy initial success against Westerosi knights if the knights try for a straight-forward knightly charge, because they can tire them out with feigned retreat, pull them off their horses with their whips, and shoot them with abandon. If the knights can come to grips with them, however, they’re going to fare poorly b/c of the difference in equipment. 

However, the main shortcoming of the Dothraki is that they will not flank infantry. While they can probably ride down raw peasant levies, the first time they come up against a proper shield wall working in coordination with archers, they’re going to die in huge numbers, because their sense of honor won’t let them retreat. 

And the Dothraki can’t reinforce once they’re in Westeros. 

there are a LOT of cracky theories about Septa Mordane (as GRRM maybe intended) but what do you think about the idea that she’s Wenda the White Fawn, brought into Griff’s entourage by Myles or Simon Toyne?

LEMORE I MEAN SEPTA LEMORE OH GOD

Heh. 

The timeline might work. The Kingswood Brotherhood had been active for some years before they attacked Elia Martell’s entourage in 279, which was 21 years ago. 

We don’t know much about Wenda – we know she was short, young, and fair. That might eliminate her – young might suggest that she should be in her mid-30s if she’s alive and Lemore’s definitely over 40; fair might mean fair-haired as well as pretty and Lemore has brown hair – but it might not. The stretch marks can’t rule her in or out – there isn’t any mention of Wenda becoming pregnant but there’s nothing that says she never was either. 

My skepticism is that Lemore clearly has a lot of training in the Faith of the Seven – that’s why she’s on hand to train Aegon – which I don’t think Wenda would have had. Also, when it came to combat with the stone men, wouldn’t Wenda have grabbed a bow?  

Might one please ask if you find it at all ironic that House Arryn “the highest, purest line of Andal nobility” intermarried with House Hunter (a House of the First Men) within two generations of The Battle of Seven Stars? (Also that newcomer Ser Artys Arryn was almost certainly named for the native Hero Artys, who slew the Griffin King).

Definitely. Although you could see the dynastic politics at work – House Hunter had been one of King Robar Royce’s chiefest bannermen in the attempt to retake the Vale for the First Men, so marrying into that House strengthens House Arryn and divides its potential enemies. 

Then again, we know so little about the Vale’s internal development between the rise of the Arryn Kings and Robert’s Rebellion, especially in comparison to their foreign policy. 

A brief digression on that: thinking about it, I’m sort of surprised there isn’t more animosity between Northmen and Valemen similar to the Reach/Dorne animosity, given the thousand year war the two sides fought, the ethnic and religious divisions between them. I suppose you could say that ties have been repaired with marriages – between the Starks and the Royces and Rogers, for ex – and fosterages (Ned, Domeric Bolton), but where did this policy come from? How successful was it, among the highborn and the smallfolk? 

I was reading your analysis of Jon IV, ACOK, and it struck me that the Fist of the First Men makes much more sense as an outpost of the Others (no provisions for sustaining life or even any hints they ever existed, terrain favors Others/undead, surrounding forest prevents discovery of night attack until too late to escape, no suitable rallying point anywhere nearby, etc.). Do you think the Others might have used it as a fortification/watchpost, or maybe as a death trap for a human army?

That’s a really interesting question. If it was a fort of the First Men prior to or during the Long Night, I wouldn’t be surprised if there wasn’t any evidence – 8,000 years in an exposed location will obscure a lot. And w/o something like the Wall, maybe it was the best the First Men could do at the time, because they do seem to have wanted to use high ground against the undead. 

As for the Others, it’s tricky – we haven’t seen the Others create any kind of structure before. Certainly they don’t need to shelter from the cold, so maybe that’s not part of their culture/society at all? The only thing we’ve seen that’s close to them using a trap is with the wights in Jon VII of AGOT, but that’s not building-related. 

It’s certainly a possibility, but I’m withholding judgement for the moment.