Yes and yes, although there’s probably an element of exaggeration. 

On the premodern war part – if you look at the Gallic Wars, or Genghis Khan’s destruction of the

Khwarezmid Empire, premodern wars could involve casualties in the hundreds of thousands to millions and have a long-term impact on the area. 

And Julius Caesar and Genghis Khan didn’t have dragons raining down fire from the sky. If you go back to the WOIAF’s description of the First Dornish War, for example, pretty much every population center in Dorne was burned again and again and again. Add to that the total war practiced during Daeron’s Conquest, where not only did the Dornish (and the Westerosi) lose entire armies, but the Westerosi armies responded to guerilla warfare by engaging in reprisals on the civilian population. 

BUT! Key point here – a lot of this has to do with damage to infrastructure. One of the things about irrigation canals in otherwise desert regions is that they require constant maintenance and upkeep, otherwise they silt up and become useless. 

So I think it was a combination of intense warfare combined with an inability to maintain the infrastructure needed for agricultural production at the previous level. 

You have discussed before some alternate sources of power the Targaryen’s developed such as public works, religion, public relations, military campaigns and bureaucratic competence. What other sources could the kings have turned to once the dragons died (ie. agriculture, finance/trade, etc.)?

What could be done to encourage nationalism in Westeros as it was when the series started (ie royal progresses -> royal marriages)?

Well, you’ve mentioned most of the big ones. Agriculture I don’t really see working, outside of a more general application of Aegon V’s relief efforts. I suppose you could try a Chinese or Japanese-style Imperial land reform, but that would lead to a quick coup by the entire noble class. 

Finance, I could see a bit more of a role. A royal bank with branches in all of the major cities of Westeros could be used to build a direct relationship between the monarchy and the burgeoning merchant class that could eventually be used to bring the aristocracy to heel in the name of a unitary nation-state. (For more in that vein, a big part of why I’m so big on city charters is that creating civic governments is a way of uniting the merchant class as a self-aware politically active class, that just happens to have its own armed forces through the city militias) 

But the main neglected thing, as I’ve said for a long time, is the justice system. No matter where you look in Medieval Europe, one of the most successful strategies for expanding the strength of the monarchy is creating a royal judicial system that can hold the nobility to account for their actions against the peasantry. Not only does this create a comprehensive bureaucracy of judges and sheriffs and the like who embody the nation-state and a sense of having rights as members of the nation-state, but it gives another way to attack the power of the nobility. 

I believe I read somewhere that Dorne has a sense of nationalism not seen anywhere else in the 7 Kingdoms (save perhaps the North/Iron islands). Could you discuss this in more detail? 

So I’ve discussed it a little bit here, but here’s how I see it:

To me, the interesting thing about Dornish nationalism is that it was more of a deliberate project than in other places – the Starks, for example, were free to focus on political and military unification, because everyone in the North was of the First Men, followed the Old Gods, etc. 

By contrast, Dornish identity was created as a fusion between the advanced urbanized culture of the Rhoynar and the Andals and First Men who had been living in Dorne before them – hence the mass intermarriages, the importation of Rhoynish technology and skill, but also the destruction of the Rhoynish ships, the banning of the Rhoynish language by three separate Princes, the importation of Rhoynish customs and law, etc.

And then all of that was intensified in three great conflicts: Nymeria’s Conquest, which saw central and western Dorne assimilated into the same realm (notably Nymeria would remarry to an Uller from central Dorne and a Dayne from western Dorne), the War Against the Dragons in which almost all of Dorne burned, and Daeron’s Conquest which was a war of total mobilization. So the Dornish have two hundred years of independence and resistance to Westerosi centralization as a common cultural tradition. 

Can you please explain how a medieval lord of moderate status would climb up the value added chain and get rich? Besides increasing your potential yield (buying more land, irrigation, crop rotation) and diversifying your stock (planting seeds form more exotic/rare crops) what else could be done? How rich could I get?

There’s a lot of potential factors – how productive is the soil to begin with? How do the price of staple crops compare to the price of livestock? So it’s hard to answer. 

But in terms of climbing up the value-added chain, the main thing is trying to capture the processing and marketing process. So for grain, for example, more and better mills and more and better silos and granaries allow you to process and store more efficiently so that less of your product is wasted, lost, or goes bad. An efficient system of wagon trains and convoy routes will make sure that your grain can be sold more widely and gets to market first to get the best price. A network of bakeries means that rather than just selling the processed material you’re selling the finished product, which usually means a better markup.

Other than that, the only thing you’ve left out on your list is human capital – more farmers means you can clear more land and farm the land you have more efficiently, more experienced and skilled farmers means fewer mistakes that cost production, literate workers means that you can send and receive written messages. 

Just an oversight. There might be useful minerals, there might not be, and it’s not clear in what quantities. 

But the main thing is, I don’t think the North is going to have an absolute or comparative advantage there compared to other regions, so it would run the risk of having its products out-competed in price by the Westerlands or somewhere else and losing money. And as long as it’s part of the Westerosi monarchy, it can’t protect its mining and metalworking industries with tariffs or import quotas.

Especially in the early stages, the North doesn’t have a large population or much capital to burn, so it needs to concentrate its efforts in areas where it’s most likely to succeed. Down the road, it might have the money and manpower to invest in mining and manufacturing in the Northern mountains, but mining and manufacturing aren’t super-cheap industries to invest in. 

Given that after the Red Wedding, the Freys made themselves the most reviled family in all of Westeros with just about every house in the Riverlands and the North wanting a piece of them. How is it that they still have an army consisting of 4000 men loyal to them (half of which are up North with the Boltons)?

I suppose two motivating factors for their levies to remain under their banner is that they are currently a very powerful house and perhaps the pay is very good. But on the flip side we know that even the lowliest of peasants wouldn’t dream of marrying into this wretched family. We have people condemning the Freys as a cursed clan for breaking guest rights, and yet this doesn’t seem to bother the soldiers who should know they are serving such despised masters.

Also it’s not like being a Frey guardsman is smooth sailing seeing how we have Lady Stoneheart and her band of merry men lynching the Freys and those associated with them whenever they can. We’ve also got Nymeria and her super pack devouring any Frey coming their way. I would have thought that with the bad rap they’ve got coupled with the real dangers of being associated with House Frey that most of their men (especially those with a conscious) should have second thoughts about continuing to fight for them and gotten out of dodge by now.

So yeah are there really a good reasons besides just making a living for the men in the Frey army to stay loyal to them?

I think there’s a couple main factors. First is something of a sunk cost/TINA issue – they’re already Frey men, their swords are already tainted by the Red Wedding, so to the extent that they care about the curse they’re already screwed. Second, the Freys are a House on the rise – they were already wealthy and powerful, and now they are the de-facto Lords Paramount of the Riverlands with control over Riverrun, Seagard, Darry, and the Twins. So ambitious and unscrupulous men (who are the kind of men Walder would have cultivated over decades of ruling the Twins) are probably going to put their money on the Freys. 

An important House in the Vale to try to bring that kingdom on-side, or maybe a major House in the Reach to try to fracture Renly’s camp. 

Regarding Daeron II ‘s Dornish Treaty: I had some ideas of how the treaty and subsequent peace might have been handled, mainly around your previous observations and would love to hear your thoughts .

• Persuading Maron Martell to drop the title “Prince of Dorne” and become a Lord Paramount instead. This would symbolically put the Martells on even footing with the other Great Houses
• Deny Dorne greater privileges (infrequent tax assessment, etc.)
• No new Targaryen marriage
• A treaty  based around your economic action plan, providing infrastructure based around improved water resources and increased trade with the Free Cities and Summer Islands
• A council seat

I was wondering if you think Dorne would have accepted these terms (considering the losses they incurred in the Conquest of Dorne) and whether spreading royal favour around to the other great houses (patronage, position, economic/administrative development, limited wars in Essos/Stepstones/etc.) would have stopped Daemon’s rebellion.

No, I don’t think the Martells would have accepted that treaty, as they don’t really get anything out of it. Rather, I think you’re going to have to manage the Reachermen, Stormlanders, and especially the Marcher lords, by leveling upwards rather than downwards.

If it were me, I’d roll Dorne, the Reach, and the Stormlands into a new Charter of Rights as part of the treaty – and if anyone wants to get in on the nice new rights, they need to swear a sacred oath to uphold the peace treaty. And send me a blood relative to serve as their “representative” to ensure the terms are being upheld. 

I don’t know if the rest of Westeros really cares that much about the Martells’ title as much as they have an issue with Daeron + Co. being murdered under a flag of peace. So I might ask Maron Martell whether he’d prefer to be Prince of Dorne or not to have to pay a rather significant blood price to the families of the men who died under the white flag. Also, the return of Daeron’s crown would be a good symbolic gesture. 

As for the marriages, I’d focus more on spreading them around: Maron needs to rustle up some additional kinfolk and marry them into the Tyrells and the Baratheons and vice versa. Likewise, it would be a really good idea to marry the Daynes, Blackmonts, Wyls, Yrnonwoods, etc. to the Tarlys, Peakes, Swanns, Carons, Dondarrions, Selmys, etc.  

RFTIT Weekly Tumblr Roundup!

Hey folks! It’s not really that time of the week, but last week was too busy for me to do one of these. News-wise, the podcast is scheduled to record on Tuesday, I’m working on figuring out how to stream the live viewing party, and the last few chapters are on their way to completion. Tumblr-wise…hang on to your hats: Why the Dornish youth are so pro-war. The effectiveness of sieges as a…

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Tyrion doesn’t have a reason to surrender.

But the ordinary citizen of King’s Landing does.