Hello, In Westeros how does honor work exactly? I apologize if this sounds like a silly question but hear me out. I define honor as doing the moral/right thing no matter the inconvenience or difficulty, (admittedly I can fall short of that ideal), but looking over the Vale it seems like it’s more about the family name and “respectability”. I mean look at the horror at some landed knight marrying Alayne Stone. Alayne Stone is way better than Harrold Hardying. Just like Sansa is better. Thanks.

Good question!

I mean, there’s a really wide literature in history, anthropology, literature, philosophy, etc. on the topic of “honor” and the different ways that different cultures and thinkers have defined and argued about it the term. So I can’t really distill all of that down to a single post.

However, I think I can shed some light on this specific topic. Honor has both an interior/individual side and an external/social side; on the latter, it’s about how well the broader community judges you have upheld the code of honor that society has established, it’s about what your reputation is. 

To use a different example: Ned Stark is honorable in two senses of the term. The first has to do with how he acts, the care he takes to behave in accordance with a particular code of ethics. The second has to do with his reputation, that Ned is widely understood to be a “man of honor” by others of his class. 

What happens in a marriage like Tyrion’s (to Tysha) where the groom in question is more able bodied and his lord father isn’t a psycho? Like with Duncan, but with no crown at stake? Would such a marriage cause disinheritance from a Great House? How much right does a lord have to disinherit a son? Could an adult or teen heir appeal or otherwise fight it? What if he has a kid but the marriage is annulled? Can such a kid be disinherited even if the dad/groom isn’t, like Franz Ferdinand’s kids?

Over to you, @goodqueenaly

How acceptable would sex be between betrothed couples? Most betrothals in the books seem to last only as long as it takes to get the couple in one place and the party organized, but what about, say, Brandon waiting at Riverrun for his family to show up? If he & Cat were more romantically inclined and sexually adventurous, would it be seen as a big deal if they discreetly got a jump on the consumation, or Robert & Lyanna at Harrenhal (if she were older) or Brandon’s wedding?

As long as the couple got married at the end of the day, a broad range of sexual behavior between engaged partners was acceptable in premodern European societies and a number of different customs were created to finesse any embarrassment.

For example, “bundling” was a custom practiced in Britain, the Netherlands, and the American colonies, whereby families would “bundle” their teen children into the same bed with a board or broom between them for modesty’s sake. And then in nine months’ time, everyone would remark at how large and healthy their “premature” child was. And so the social fiction was maintained…

To what extent was Cersei’s patronage of Lannisters excessive? Ned seems to think it is, but he is also inclined to look askance at the Lannisters. The only known westerners at court are 1 Kingsguard, 2 squires and the executioner, as well as Cersei herself & Jaime, who was of Aerys’ court. The only Lannister loyalist is Pycelle who came before Cersei was born, and maybe some more of the Kingsguard. So how much patronage is too much for the queen? LF actually seems to have got more appointments.

Those are only the known Westerlanders; i.e, the ones who are plot relevant, so they need to be given names and whatnot. There are no doubt others who are less important hangers-on among the knights and lords who travel in the royal entourage. 

However, you’re leaving out some important elements of patronage:

Robert’s mouth gave a bitter twist. “Not well, in truth,” he admitted. “I think losing Jon has driven the woman mad, Ned. She has taken the boy back to the Eyrie. Against my wishes. I had hoped to foster him with Tywin Lannister at Casterly Rock. Jon had no brothers, no other sons. Was I supposed to leave him to be raised by women?”

“Kingslayer,” Ned said. The rumors were true, then. He rode on dangerous ground now, he knew. “An able and courageous man, no doubt,” he said carefully, “but his father is Warden of the West, Robert. In time Ser Jaime will succeed to that honor. No one man should hold both East and West.” He left unsaid his real concern; that the appointment would put half the armies of the realm into the hands of Lannisters.

And that’s what Cersei does when Robert’s still alive and her influence is somewhat contained. The critical moment is what happens when Robert dies and for the first time Cersei can do what she wants:

“In the place of the traitor Eddard Stark, it is the wish of His Grace that Tywin Lannister, Lord of Casterly Rock and Warden of the West, take up the office of Hand of the King, to speak with his voice, lead his armies against his enemies, and carry out his royal will. So the king has decreed. The small council consents.

"In the place of the traitor Stannis Baratheon, it is the wish of His Grace that his lady mother, the Queen Regent Cersei Lannister, who has ever been his staunchest support, be seated upon his small council, that she may help him rule wisely and with justice. So the king has decreed. The small council consents.”

“It is also the wish of His Grace that his loyal servant, Janos Slynt, Commander of the City Watch of King’s Landing, be at once raised to the rank of lord and granted the ancient seat of Harrenhal with all its attendant lands and incomes, and that his sons and grandsons shall hold these honors after him until the end of time. It is moreover his command that Lord Slynt be seated immediately upon his small council, to assist in the governance of the realm. So the king has decreed. The small council consents.”

“Your time is done,” Cersei Lannister announced. “Joffrey requires men around him who are young and strong. The council has determined that Ser Jaime Lannister will take your place as the Lord Commander of Sworn Brothers of the White Swords.”

The problem is that Cersei is bad at sharing her toys. 

The Venture Bros. Podcast Season 7 Episode 1

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The Venture Bros. Podcast Season 7 Episode 1

Brock venture bros season 7Love The Venture Bros cartoon but afraid of missing the myriad of historical references and layers of meaning behind each episode? Join pop culture and history experts Elana Levin and Steven Attewell (whose secret identity is that he’s an actual historian) for our Podcast examining each episode of Season 7 of this hit Adult Swim show.

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Back on the podcast grind! 

In Arianne’s TWOW chapters she says that “if (Daenerys) hopes to sit the Iron Throne, she must have Sunspear”. Is this true? None of the claimants in the War of Five Kings seemed particularly interested in Dornish support and we know they’re militarily under-powered from Doran.

I think it’s true in the following sense: 

  • The Westerlands, North, Iron Islands, Riverlands, Vale, Stormlands have strong anti-Targaryen leanings coming out of Robert’s Rebellion. They’re unlikely to lend any assistamce to Dany, especially straight off the boat.
  • The Reach is committed to Tommen, whether through Margaery, land distributions after Blackwater, coronation oaths, etc. There are probably some Targaryen loyalists left among the lords of the Reach, but they’re isolated and unlikely to be free to act. 
  • Dorne is the only intact Targaryen loyalist kingdom in Westeros. Not only can they give Dany 25,000 spears, but they can give her the legitimacy of a kingdom’s worth of (princes and) lords bending the knee and acclaiming Dany the rightful Queen of Westeros. 

So when Aegon the Conqueror took the swords of the lords and kings that he defeated to forge the Iron Throne, why didn’t he take their Valyrian steel blades? Did he give Torrhen Stark a chance to go home and get some other sword instead of demanding that he give up Ice?

Because Aegon’s intent was to gain compliance and submission, rather than starting epic grievances with his new subjects. 

So why needlessly ask for priceless family heirlooms, when any random soldier’s sword does the symbolic work just as well?