Considering that the Lannisters currently control the Iron Throne, how does the crown’s debts to Casterly Rock work? Are the Lannisters now in debt to themselves?

opinions-about-tiaras:

racefortheironthrone:

As far as House Lannister is concerned, the Iron Throne belongs to House Baratheon; indeed, they must uphold that fiction at every point if they are to have any pretense of legitimacy. Hence, the debts of Robert Baratheon are passed on to his heirs, Joffrey and Tommen.

Now, it is entirely possible for Tywin to forgive those debts, as Tyrion asks him to. Tywin’s refusal is more personal in nature; he’s spent his entire life paying the king’s debts, first with Aerys II and then with Robert, and he views the reign of King Joffrey as where he will be repaid in every sense of the word. 

Tywin’s refusal, and Cersei’s blind spot in this matter, points to a certain failure of imagination on the part of the Lannisters, that they don’t think of the Iron Throne and House Lannister as part of a single institution – in which case, the best strategy would be to forgive the Iron Throne’s debt, massively improving the Crown’s financial standing and allowing them to deal with Braavos and the Faith without need for default or concession – but rather see the Iron Throne as a means of extracting power and wealth for House Lannister. 

What’s always surprised me isn’t so much Cersei’s idiocy in this matter, because Cersei isn’t that smart, but Kevan’s.

Cersei was very silly to trade the Faith Militant for debt forgiveness, but with that done, the Kevan Lannister Regency could have followed it up with the one-two punch of having House Lannister not only forgive the Crown’s debts, but handing a huge whack of gold over to the Iron Bank as well. Instead Kevan seems to be floundering around on this score… and Kevan is supposed to be one of the smart Lannisters.

Kevan is dutiful but not imaginative, I don’t think he would act against Tywin’s wishes. 

Is westeros following civil or common law?

Great question! It seems like a bit of both:

In these progresses, the king was accompanied not only by his courtiers but by maesters and septons as well. Six maesters were often in his company to advise him upon the local laws and traditions of the former realms, so that he might rule in judgment at the courts he held. Rather than attempting to unify the realm under one set of laws, he respected the differing customs of each region and sought to judge as their past kings might have. (WOIAF)

However, these traditions were then blended in with new decrees from the Iron Throne into a common law; for example, see “The “rule of six,” now part of the common law, was established by Rhaenys as she sat the Iron Throne while the king was upon one of his progresses.”

In the reign of King Jaehaerys I, this changed:

“With Barth’s aid and advice, King Jaehaerys did more to reform the realm than any other king who lived before or after. Where his grandsire, King Aegon, had left the laws of the Seven Kingdoms to the vagaries of local tradition and custom, Jaehaerys created the first unified code, so that from the North to the Dornish Marches, the realm shared a single rule of law.” (WOIAF)

As I’ve said before, it’s entirely unclear how this legal code is enforced, or how this code brought the different legal traditions of seven kingdoms plus the accretions of two generations of Targaryens into harmony. However, it’s quite likely that the previous “common law” was the foundation of Jaehaerys’ Code, which was revised in the reign of King Viserys II. 

Considering that the Lannisters currently control the Iron Throne, how does the crown’s debts to Casterly Rock work? Are the Lannisters now in debt to themselves?

As far as House Lannister is concerned, the Iron Throne belongs to House Baratheon; indeed, they must uphold that fiction at every point if they are to have any pretense of legitimacy. Hence, the debts of Robert Baratheon are passed on to his heirs, Joffrey and Tommen.

Now, it is entirely possible for Tywin to forgive those debts, as Tyrion asks him to. Tywin’s refusal is more personal in nature; he’s spent his entire life paying the king’s debts, first with Aerys II and then with Robert, and he views the reign of King Joffrey as where he will be repaid in every sense of the word. 

Tywin’s refusal, and Cersei’s blind spot in this matter, points to a certain failure of imagination on the part of the Lannisters, that they don’t think of the Iron Throne and House Lannister as part of a single institution – in which case, the best strategy would be to forgive the Iron Throne’s debt, massively improving the Crown’s financial standing and allowing them to deal with Braavos and the Faith without need for default or concession – but rather see the Iron Throne as a means of extracting power and wealth for House Lannister. 

Thank you so much for your passion in sharing knowledge. We are all better for it. Questions: 1. How would you describe Dany’s education up until her first chapter in the series? Especially compared to other royalty growing up in exile. Would you compile a (deliciously exhaustive) list of books, articles, etc that you refer to in your blog essays? Oh! And a list that you consider good for rounding out one’s own education? Basically just a list to read. Thanks again!

Question 1:

We don’t have a particularly precise picture of Dany’s pre-ASOIAF education. We know that she can read and write, and that she speaks both the Common Tongue, High Valyrian, and quite a bit of the dialects of the Free Cities. We know she has a rudimentary grasp of history – she knows Nymeria’s Conquest but not the Water Gardens of Dorne, 

My guess is that Daenerys’ formal education was rather brief, given that the servants who would have been educating her ran off when she was five and they didn’t include a maester; in the period thereafter where they were staying with magisters and archons and the like, she may have had tutors but how in-depth their curriculum was is unclear. But when the money ran out, I think her education did too, as Viserys seems to have filled in a lot by telling her stories of the past and of home, etc. 

Question 2:

Great question!

My list would skew to the historical, naturally, and to stuff that was important to me when I read it. I reserve the right to amend this list as I look across my bookshelves and think of more stuff. 

  •  Karl Polayni’s Great Transformation. Totally changed my understanding of economic history, and the way we think about markets versus the way that markets actually came into existence. 
  • E.P Thompson’s work in general, but especially Making of the English Working Class and Customs in Common. One of the original social historians, and also a hugely important figure in revisionist Marxism.
  • Fernand Braudel’s The Mediterranean and the Mediterranean World in the Age of Philip II. It’s a daunting read, but Braudel’s way of seeing the world as these interconnected geographical and commercial and cultural regions and the way that environmental forces shape our history without being aware of it, will change your mind.
  • Eric Foner’s work in general, but Reconstruction if you need to pick just one. Totally rewrote our understanding of the period and the way that race has shaped American politics. 
  • On the same note, David Blight’s Race and Reunion is abolutely key to understanding how historical memory of the Civil War was weaponized in the service of white supremacy in Soutth and North alike. 
  • To understand cities, I would argue you should read William Cronon’s Nature’s Metropolis on how Chicago reshaped the American West and Midwest, Burrows and Wallace’s Gotham, which takes you from the founding of New Amsterdam to the consolidation of the five boroughs into New York City in 1898. 
  • To understand what actually happened in the 1960s and how it led to our politics today, I would recommend Tom Sugrue’s Origins of the Urban Crisis and Sweet Land of Liberty, Martha Biondi’s To Stand and Fight, and Rick Perlstein’s Nixonland.