Do you feel that the Borgia get a bad rap sometimes? I was reading about Pope Alexander VI’s religious tolerance to Jews and I wonder why that never shows up even in “liberal” works like say the Assassin’s Creed II game.

I would say that the Borgia weren’t that much worse than other Renaissance elites, and a bunch of their bad rep comes from the fact that they were Spanish trying to entrench themselves in Italian politics at a time when the Spanish were gaining influence. 

On the other hand, let’s not kid ourselves that they were much better either. 

Do you think the Baratheon historic closeness to the Targaryen dynasty was due to them being sort of “backup” Targaryens in case shit hit the fan?

There’s a couple problems with that description:

  1. The Dance of the Dragons. Borros wasn’t exactly chummy with Rhaenrya, and his alliance with Aegon II was purely instrumental. And given that the blacks won, the Baratheons were out of royal favor for some time. 
  2. The Velaryons. Closer ties to Aegon than even Orys Baratheon, three marriages into House Targaryen (Alyssa, Laena, Daenaera), and three Targ marriages into House Velaryon (Rhaenys, Rhaenrya, Baela). Plus they have the Valyrian look that the Baratheons don’t.
  3. Lyonel’s Rebellion. Sort of a break in relations, I would say. But Rhaelle’s marriage into House Baratheon seems to have been the first Targ-Baratheon marriage, since Aemond never consummated his bethrothal as far as I know. 

So I wouldn’t call them backup Targs. 

Regarding Steffon Baratheon’s mission to Volantis to find a bride for Rhaegar, do you think its possible he just botched the mission because he was already part of the “southron ambitions” alliance?

Here’s the thing about Steffon Baratheon…after WOIAF, I’m less convinced than I was before that Steffon was part of the Southron Ambitions conspiracy. After all, everything in WOIAF speaks to Steffon as having been super-tight with another power bloc:

Aerys and Tywin had known each other since childhood. As a boy, Tywin Lannister had served as a royal page at King’s Landing. He and Prince Aerys, together with a younger page, the prince’s cousin Steffon Baratheon of Storm’s End, had become inseparable. During the War of the Ninepenny Kings, the three friends had fought together, Tywin as a new-made knight, Steffon and Prince Aerys as squires.

By contrast, we learn absolutely nothing about any potential links to Jon Arryn, Hoster Tully, or Rickard Stark. Now, it’s possible that Steffon’s closeness to Aerys meant that he could see the growing madness, but that’s not really the impression you get with the whole trip to Volantis. (Maybe he blamed the Targs for his father’s death? I dunno.)The detail that bugs me is we don’t know why Jon Arryn was chosen to be Robert’s foster-father – was this due to a close relationship between Jon and Steffon or something else?

image

So my current thinking – and I have to say, I feel 60-40 on this – the Baratheons weren’t supposed to be a part of the SA coalition: after all, they had close blood relations to the Targs, Steffon was personally close to Aerys, etc. Rather in a stroke of good luck/political nous, it was only after Steffon’s death and Robert becoming Jon Arryn’s ward that the SAs could count on having the Stormlands in their camp. 

Perhaps this explains why Hoster Tully reached out to Tywin Lannister for a marriage alliance. The SAs not being idiots, they could see that Tywin was on the outs with Aerys, and getting the second-most powerful man in Westerosi politics along with the might of the Westerlands for their power bloc could only help. 

RFTIT Tumblr Weekly Roundup!

RFTIT Tumblr Weekly Roundup!

Hello folks! Davos II is up to 4,000 words and should be ready for Monday, and the Politics of the Westerlands is getting underway, but in the meantime, let’s see what the Tumblrs have in store for us? Why was Syrio Forel teaching in King’s Landing? Debate on the Pink Letter. Was there slavery on Dragonstone? Long discussion on the Citadel: Part I Part II Part III Part IV Part V Why did Steffon…

View On WordPress

I read your posts on the pre-Andal Citadel, and is it possible that they used the greenseers’ powers to see through weirwoods to record history? According to the wiki, marriages and ceremonies are performed in front of the trees, so greenseers would’ve been witness to all the lords’ important business. It would explain the current Citadel’s lack of records from the time since they would’ve lacked that magic and no desire to preserve evidence of such magic.

kmoritz19:

racefortheironthrone:

I mean, I don’t see any evidence that there were greenseers among the first maesters of the Citadel. WOIAF is pretty comprehensive about what kinds of scholars were among that group, including “wizards, alchemists, and sorcerers,” but not greenseers.

Bloodraven is described as all three of those as well though!

But is also described as a greenseer.