1/3 How on earth do the titles and styles of the Westeros nobility work? I am so confused, and part of that is probably because I know a lot about how titles and styles work in the British peerage (where Lady Catelyn and Lady Stark signify VERY different things). But I can’t make sense of it in AOIAF/GOT Sometimes people are called Lord first name, sometimes Lord last name, sometimes Lord first name last name. Children seem to be addressed by the same title as their parents (Lord and Lady).

2/3 And people of vastly different ranks seem to have the same title (Ned might be Hand of the King, Warden of the North, and so on, but he and Littlefinger and someone like Roose Bolton or Walder Frey, who are of different ranks and come from different places are all Lord of _blank_). The bastard of minor lord (albeit one with a high office) is addressed as Lady Alayne, but the bastard of the Warden of North is mockingly called Lord Snow.

3/3 And then you have Ser, and presumably some people who are called Lord also are knights, so how does that work? Titles seem to follow people to the Wall, but no to the Citadel or the Seven. I know sometimes people look to the historical time periods Westeros is based on for this kind of thing, but even that gets me at a loss, like Westeros clearly has the title of Princess which is a much later term. I just can’t figure it out. What am I missing?

Oh man, titles are such a tricky subject. 

The thing to start with is that GRRM deliberately went with a simpler form of noble titles because he didn’t want to have to keep track of which outranked or had precedence over the other, although this creates some difficulties.

  1. The way GRRM seems to use it, Lady Catelyn vs. Lady Stark is about familiarity and formality. Lady Catelyn suggests you know the person and are being familiar with them, Lady Stark suggests you don’t know them well and are being formal, Lady Catelyn Stark suggests that plus you’re being very formal and/or precise. 
  2. Ranks tend to be indicated by additional titles: Lord Paramount of X, Warden of X, Lord of X Castle, etc. 
    1. As for children, this to me is similar to how smallfolk members of the Small Council are called Lords out of courtesy as opposed to by right. 
    2. Lord Snow is an insult by way of exaggerated courtesy.
  3. In pretty much all cases, you address someone by their highest rank, so a lord who is also a knight (and most sothron lords would have been knighted at some point) is called Lord. (There’s a bit of confusion over the Darrys, but this may be a case of Early Installment Weirdness
    1. As for the Night’s Watch, the title of “Ser” definitely carries over, because the oath requires you to abjure holding land. Don’t think there are cases of any Lord who isn’t a Lord Commander, tho.
    2. As for the Citadel, maesters swear “sacred vows, to hold no lands or lordships.” I don’t know of any case of a knight becoming a maester, but presumably the same principle that applies to the Night’s Watch applies to them. OTOH, Aemon stopped becoming a Prince after he became a Maester although it’s possible that A. at the point he did that he was a “Prince of” something, which would indicate lordship or B. that as Aemon saw it, he stopped being a Prince when he ceased to be a Targaryen, since maesters give up their family names, which the Night’s Watch doesn’t.
    3. We don’t know the rules for the Seven, although presumably it’s the same as the Citadel.
  4. Pre-Targaryen monarchies outside of Dorne do not seem to have used the style of prince or princess, as we see with Argilac’s daughter being referred to as “Lady Argella” and not “Princess Argella.” The Targaryens started using the style somewhat belatedly, because for some reason people started using the Dornish style. 

@goodqueenaly, any thoughts?

Anguy won 10 000 golden dragons on the Hand’s tourney with his archery skills. If he had more modern-day senses and long-term thinking about his life (no offense, Anguy), then what could a man of the smallfolk have done with this amount of money to improve his life in the long term? What are the options?

Great question! 

I would say that his best bet for upward social mobility is to find an heiress of a poor noble family and marry his way into a title (either that of a landed knight or a petty lord) – the fact that he has a lot of cash on hand means that he can skip a lot of the steps along the way that people in medieval societies attempted to climb the social ladder. It would probably also help if he were to serve with distinction in war and get himself knighted* to belt-and-braces his drive for noble status, and given his superlative skills as an archer that wouldn’t be hard. 

* hell, he managed this in OTL (in a fashion) despite having wasted his money. If Ser Anguy survives the BWB, there’s no reason he couldn’t have a decent career as a sworn sword or household knight (and even a tourney knight, if he can find enough tourneys offering archery prizes). 

Next best, he could marry into a merchant family. This would advance him up to the status of burgher, and I would imagine there would be a lot more merchant families who’d be quite happy with such a large injection of capital and who’d be much less snobbish about his background than the minor nobility would be. My hesitation here is that, while Anguy is a perfectly nice young man, he doesn’t seem to have much of a head for or experience in business. Might be happy as head of security, maybe.

Another possibility is creating a sellsword company; he certainly has the up-front liquid capital to hire several hundred skilled archers and sell their services. Again, I don’t know necessarily that Anguy has the necessary head for military command or small business management, and mercenary work has all of the risk of social mobility through military service with less of the possibility of advancing into the nobility. Also, it would probably mean spending a lot of time in Essos, and Anguy might not like living abroad.

RTFIT Tumblr Weeklyish Roundup

Hey folks! So unfortunately, the exciting book announcement isn’t quite ready, but the progress reports I’m getting indicate that it’s very close. In the mean-time, since those of us on the East Coast of the U.S are somewhat snowbound, here’s some tumblrs: hostages and guest-right, part I. hostages and guest-right, part II. feudalism as a cross-cultural phenomenon. were 20th century aristocrats…

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What were they thinking releasing the Han Solo movie in the same month as Infinity War? IW is the (first part of the) culmination of ten years of MCU movies but Solo is going to eat into its take because it’s Star Wars. Why pit your biggest franchises against each other like that?

Avengers comes out on the 4th, Solo on the 25th, so it’s more a beginning/end of the month thing. I think Disney think that Avengers Infinity War is going to make the bulk of its money in those first three weeks like the first two did, and that by the 25th their audience will be more word-of-mouth and repeat viewers, whereas the Solo audience in the first couple of weeks will be first time viewers.

Also, they own both franchises – the dollars all go into the same pocket at the end of the day. 

Is Myranda Royce snobbish about the Sistermen in TWOW because they’re poor, or because they’re not integrated into the Vale political polity, or some other reason?

Good question! 

I think there are a couple different factors going on:

The Sistermen are not part of the mainland but rather out on the extreme periphery of the Vale:

  • Because the Sisters became part of the Vale after the Battle of Seven Stars, they don’t have the cachet of having fought for the Andals and the True Religion (in the same way that a certain kind of WASP looks down on people who didn’t come over on the Mayflower or whose ancestors didn’t fight in the American Revolution) and are instead provincials.
  • Because they live far off, they’re not a regular part of court life, and although definitely the highborn families would be treated as highborn, they certainly wouldn’t have the cachet of the inhabitants of the Vale proper.
  • Because they don’t live on the mainland, they don’t share mainlander concerns about mountain clans raiding or growing seasons or mountain passes being closed off by snow, etc. 

The Sistermen are moreover a historically rebellious and quasi-criminal part of the periphery. 

  • Before the Andals came, the Sistermen were pirates and slavers, neither activity likely to make them popular with the people they steal from or the people they steal. And to the present day, a big part of their economy is smuggling, and wrecking – the mainlanders despise honest merchants, so these guys are going to be seen as the lowest of the low.
  • As the mainlanders see it, the Sistermen started the Worthless War by being greedy pirates who poked the wolf one too many times, and not a small part of the mainland suffered as a consequence.
  • Then after the Arryns rescued the Sistermen, they rebelled against them during Aegon’s Conquest, and then against them and the Targaryens during the Blackfyre Rebellions. 

And finally, there’s the whole inbreeding/webbed fingers and toes thing, which probably means they’ve interbred with the Squishers…

Chapter-by-Chapter Analysis: Catelyn III, ASOS

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“Outside the thunder crashed and boomed, so loud it sounded as if the castle were coming down about their ears. Is this the sound of a kingdom falling?” Synopsis: Rickard Karstark commits suicide in an extremely elaborate fashion. SPOILER WARNING: This chapter analysis, and all following, will contain spoilers for all Song of Ice and Fire novels and Game of Thrones episodes. Caveat lector. (more…)

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A while ago I asked you about historical examples of the “resource curse,” and it seems like perhaps my question was perhaps a little vague. It seems to me that virtually all examples of the resource curse that I’m aware of were in at least the early Modern world, become more common the closer you get to the present day, and they are particularly prevalent in capitalist society. What I wanted to know was whether it is unique to modern history, or if there are examples from pre-modern history.

Yeah, and I gave you a pre-modern example here.