If Robert had brought Mya Stone to King’s Landing, what sort of social status/lifestyle could she have had there? Can you give any historical examples of royal illegitimate daughters that were significant figures in their fathers’ court?

goodqueenaly:

cle-guy:

goodqueenaly:

racefortheironthrone:

I think it would have counted against Mya that her mother was not merel a commoner but a servant to boot, compared to Edric Storm’s mother being a lady of House Florent.

In terms of royal illegitimate daughters – well, depending on whether we count Mary and Elizabeth Tudor, given that their illegitimacy was more a political issue and many people didn’t accept them as such – it’s hard to go wrong with the prolifically promiscuous Charles II’s many, many illegitimate children. With Barbara Villiers (Duchess of Cleveland), Charles had Charlotte Fitzroy, who would become Countess Lichfield, and Anne Fitzroy, who would become Countess of Sussex; with Elizabeth Boyle (Viscountess Shannon), he’d have another Charlotte FitzRoy who became the Countess of Yarmouth; and with Moll Davies (actress), he had Mary Tudor, and married (although later divorced) the Earl of Derwentwater). 

Any other prominent royal illegitimate daughters, @goodqueenaly?

If we’re talking specifically about illegitimate daughters of royalty born to non-noble parents, then my first thought would be Margaret of Parma. The daughter of Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor (he of the elaborate heraldry), Margaret was born in 1522 from his affair with Johanna Maria van der Gheynst, the daughter of a Flemish tapestry maker, who was a servant in the household of Charles de Lalaing, Governor of Oudenaarde (whom Charles V had visited). Although illegitimate, Margaret was formally recognized by the Emperor, who saw her as a means of advancing Habsburg interests through a dynastic marriage (befitting the line of Latin poetry so often associated with the Habsburgs: bella gerant alii, tu felix Austria, nube). She was raised in Flanders under the supervision of her great-aunt Margaret of Austria (Charles V’s paternal aunt) and her aunt Mary of Hungary (Charles V’s sister), appeared regularly at court, and was given lavish presents of lace, jewelry, and silk (albeit given, as the account books noted, to “the little bastard”). In 1533, Margaret traveled to Italy as part of her betrothal arrangement to Alessandro de’ Medici, Duke of Florence, whom she married in 1536; when he was assassinated the following year, Margaret married Ottavio Farnese, Duke of Parma (himself the grandson, via an illegitimate son, of Pope Paul III). In 1559, Margaret was named Governor of the Netherlands by her half-brother, Philip II of Spain, and she served capably in that role for eight years; when her son, Alexander Farnese, was appointed Governor in 1578, she returned as co-governor and adviser until she again retired, in 1582, and died four years later.

Even with Mya having a lowborn mother, Robert theoretically could have done more to raise her as a member of the nobility in all but name. Had he installed her, if not at court (where Cersei almost certainly would have had her killed), as a ward of a high-ranking Vale or Stormlands House (a la Larence Snow), and lavished her with gifts and attention, Mya might have been able to make a good marriage, at least to a minor nobleman. However, Robert did not really seem to care what happened to Mya after he left the Vale: her “Stone” surname seems more due to her parentage being an open secret in the Vale than any formal recognition by the king of his eldest daughter, and his suggestion of bringing her to court more a way to make himself feel better about the emerging monstrous nature of Joffrey than any true affection for Mya (and I tend to think that it was Jon Arryn who quietly gave little Mya to be raised as a servant of the junior House Royce). Consequently, poor Mya was doomed to a life of servant’s work, though perhaps brightened by a match with the low-ranking but good-hearted Ser Lothor Brune.

Does this make Joy Hill of House Lannister unusual?

Unusual in that she has been raised presumably more or less comfortably (materially speaking, at least, since she’s thought of by Jaime as a lonely child) at her paternal seat, and in that we actually have some idea of what her marital fate could be, perhaps. But this may be less because of Joy herself and more because we have very little information on a number of highborn bastard daughters, particularly recognized ones. Few of the ones we know of have led privileged lives: the Sand Snakes have been raised largely as Oberyn’s trueborn daughters in all but name (even if Arianne has to remind Elia Sand to play her maidservant in “Arianne II” TWOW), but Falia Flowers was a domestic servant in her father’s castle, Sylvenna Sand was a prostitute in King’s Landing, and Ellaria Sand was “almost a whore” when Oberyn made her his paramour (though this description could be an exaggeration based in anti-Dornish racism/exoticism, especially since Ellaria seems to have a decent enough relationship with her father, Lord Harmen Uller, to go to the Hellholt with little Loreza Sand as of TWOW). However, there are still more whose fates are far less known: we don’t know what happened to Melissa Blackwood’s two daughters by the king, Mya and Gwenys Rivers, though it’s entirely possible that they, like their brother, benefited from their mother’s sterling reputation at court (and the incomes provided by their half brother Daeron II) and made fairly good matches; Alys Rivers shows up almost out of nowhere in “The Princess and the Queen” (though in the Dance rewrite I have been working on with @warsofasoiaf, I made her a bastard of House Strong and servant in Harrenhal) and disappears without a trace after the duel above the Gods Eye; Shiera Seastar appears to have been raised at court (and certainly had an excellent education, since she spoke a dozen languages and was an avid reader) and certainly made a place for herself there as Bloodraven’s paramour and ally, but again we have know idea what became of her; and Jeyne Waters, the bastard daughter of Princess Elaena by Alyn Velaryon and twin of Ser Jon Waters, is only known by name, as are the bastard daughters of Walder Frey. 

The fact is, there are far more known bastard boys than there are bastard girls, which means we have a better idea of the sort of careers bastard sons can have and whom they could marry. As with anything in Westeros, I suppose it would probably be circumstantial what happened with a bastard daughter in any particular case.

Regarding why Mya Stone became a servant…I think the issue is that Robert sired her when he was still a ward in Jon Arryn’s household, so the decision of how she was to be raised was more in Jon Arryn’s control than it would have been if she’d been sired at Storm’s End. And in the more socially conservative Vale, the daughter of a servant was going to be raised as a servant.

That being said, Robert could have done more for her when he became king, but Robert tends to lose interest in children when they’re no longer cute babies, and is happy to let others make the decisions about them. 

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