About Ashara and Ned: there was dishonor, because sex before marriage is dishonorable. And Catelyn was “in love” with Brandon, but as far as the evidences show, Brandon didn’t care about her. Apart from the duel with LF (which is not about feelings, really, more about honor), nothing happened showing Brandon’s affection. Dustin says he didn’t want Cat at all, and seeing the womanizer he was, I believe Brandon wasn’t interested in Catelyn.

onionjulius:

racefortheironthrone:

Sex before marriage isn’t dishonorable. Harwin says as much: 

“When Ned met this Dornish lady, his brother Brandon was still alive, and it was him betrothed to Lady Catelyn, so there’s no stain on your father’s honor. There’s nought like a tourney to make the blood run hot, so maybe some words were whispered in a tent of a night, who can say? Words or kisses, maybe more, but where’s the harm in that? Spring had come, or so they thought, and neither one of them was pledged.”

As for Brandon, while I’m not sure whether or not he “loved” Catelyn, I’m pretty sure he was attracted to her. Catelyn was a beautiful woman, everyone pretty much agrees on that, and womanizers normally are attracted to beautiful women. 

It’s just as weird to generalize one’s self into saying that it is somehow normal for Brandon to have been attracted to Catelyn as it is to generalize one’s self into saying that it is somehow normal for Ashara to have been attracted to Brandon (which it seems you object to). What if Brandon preferred a dangerous if not traditionally beautiful woman like Barbrey? What would it mean if he thought Catelyn was pretty in her pure little Catholic schoolgirl way but had no intention of giving up his other dalliances upon marriage, how does that work for the parallel? And w.r.t. this supposed parallel and how it strengthens the idea of N+A=♥, if all we know is that Brandon and Catelyn found each other attractive, then the only thing required for a parallel is that Ned and Ashara found each other attractive when they met at a dance.

You can obviously write the fanfic where Brandon is attracted to and indeed extremely attracted to Catelyn, but the text is absolutely not definitive. If one is pretty sure about anything in this debate, it’s because one likes the sound of it.

That’s a fair point. On the other hand, 

1. Barbrey isn’t exactly a neutral narrator on this point, nor is Brandon particularly believable, given that he’s talking to his dishonored girlfriend about how he totally doesn’t want to marry this other woman, honest. 

2. The text isn’t definitive, but my reading of Catelyn VII of AGOT suggests that Brandon was certainly not averse to Catelyn – in addition to fighting the duel, there’s the wearing of her favor, accepting her request, and promising to return to marry her. 

However, the main point that I was getting at is that sex before marriage between two people who aren’t engaged to anyone else isn’t considered dishonorable.